Transcript | US v Pfc. Manning, Pfc. Manning’s Witness Testimony, Article 13 hearing, 11/29/12 and 11/30/12

posted November 30, 2012

UPDATE POST COURT-MARTIAL

United States v. Pfc. Manning was conducted in de facto secrecy. The public was not granted contemporaneous access to court filings or rulings during her trial. In addition to reporting on her trial, I transcribed the proceedings, reconstructed the censored appellate list, and un-redacted any publicly available documentation, in order to foster public comprehension of her unprecedented trial.

As a result of a lawsuit against the military judge and the Military District of Washington brought by the Center for Constitutional Rights, as well as my own FOIA requests and research, an official court record for US v. Pfc. Manning was released seven months after her trial. That record is not complete.

The official trial docket is published HERE and the entire collection of documents is text searchable at usvmanning.org.

*During the pretrial proceedings, court-martial and sentencing of Pfc. Manning, Chelsea requested to be identified as Bradley and addressed using the male pronoun. In a letter embargoed for August 22, 2013 Chelsea proclaimed that she is female and wished to be addressed from that moment forward as Chelsea E. Manning.

And, it was good to know that I wasn’t fully
cut off from the world, for at least those ten to fifteen minutes that we were
authorized for that phone call– for those phone calls.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you also able to speak with legal counsel
for this time?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. We had attorney phone calls that would be scheduled by our– by the TDS
[Trial Defense Service] counsel. And, those were every– I mean, they had a special area for those
phone– for those phone calls, but the TDS counsel I had didn’t really call a
lot, at that time.

Defense (Coombs)

Did there come a time when you were removed
from the open bay tent back to a segregated tent?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I remember– I think about two weeks into– maybe a little bit less–
might have been actually just one week of being there.

I talked to him.But those phone privileges were removed
shortly after my first three phone calls. So I lost that privilege, I don’t know why.

I am usually grounded pretty firmly in, like
how I connect to the rest of the world, in those things.

So, after having those cut off, I really
started to just not really get anything. I just started living inside my– the limited surroundings that I
had.

My world just shrunk to just Camp Arifjan, and
then to that cage.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did you see any documentation at that
point to know that what you experienced apparently was a breakdown or an
anxiety attack?

Pfc. Manning

Pfc. Manning

Yes. He gave me some medication. I know it was.It was an
SSRI [Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor].

I think it was Lt. [Commander? Bar?]– might
have been, but I think it was also– I think it was an enlisted– a senior
enlisted person, sir– maybe Master Chief or the Chief at the time– and,
basically said– said, ‘You’re being transferred to a different facility.We are not gonna,’ you know, ‘That is
all the information we have.’

And, then I started gathering my things in the
cell.Cause they kept all my
belongings in the cell next to me, but I was authorized to have them.They started inventorying that.

Defense (Coombs)

Describe that day for Colonel Lind.Like what happened once they got done
inventorying, and you were being escorted out?

Pfc. Manning

It was almost sundown.Cause I remember the door was open to
the tent.And, they inventoried my belongings.And, I was there present.They gave me– They took away the smock
and they gave me clothing.

And, then they brought me to the front of the
facility where they had transfer to the medical staff.

I had a full physical done, and I filled out
some– I filled out some paperwork for receiving my [blinds?].

I don’t know.It was just a– there was this– I had
been conveyed some serious charges, but I didn’t really have a lot of guidance
legally with Captain Bouchard, because of the limitations of the telephonic–
and having the guards there listening in– so I just speculated and guessed.

Again, I was taken to another holding
area.Again, I speculated where I
was going, not knowing.They
removed me completely from the plane. I was in full restraints.I
was a detainee.Although, I was
still in Army ACU’s [Army Combat Uniform]. And, then I was held in one of the terminals in Mannheim, and I think it
was at Mannheim.It was
Germany.

And, then sat there for aboutan hour and a half, and then we got back
onto the plane.It was the same
plane we were on before, and the same seating area.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at this point, did you know where you were
going?

Pfc. Manning

Again, I found out the same way.It was a different captain, but he said,
you know "Flight time.We
should be arriving at Baltimore Washington International Airport,’ you know,
so.I knew I was going CONUS at
that point, which was– at least I was hoping that we were just going to stay
CONUS.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how were you feeling at that point when
you knew that you were going to be going to the States?

Pfc. Manning

I felt a lot better.I mean, I didn’t think I was going to
set foot on American soil for a long time, so.I was elated.

As silly as it sounds, it felt a lot better,
knowing that at least I am going to be– And, you know, I know Baltimore
Washington International Airport.

So we actually landed and went through customs
just like– obviously for the soldier portion– for the charter area– but,
went through customs just filling out the same– filled out the same paperwork,
you know, transferred through.

So, it was great to be in familiar
surroundings– American soil– BWI [Baltimore Washington International
Airport].

Defense (Coombs)

And, where did you go once you got– from BWI?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. They– There was a lot of questions that– I was swarmed with all the
paperwork, and they were– most of it was verbal.

So, I said to the suicide questions both times
I said, ‘No. Not suicidal.’You know,
but they would ask me questions like, ‘Well why were you on suicide– Why were
you on Suicide Watch then?’

It was, you know– It was– They would ask a
question and then would sometimes say I was wrong, you know, in terms of like
my address, and not giving them the Zip Code, ‘Are you going to give us the Zip
Code?’

I mean, and that was sort of the vibe that I
got through that, and asking questions.

And, it was the same with paperwork.I filled out the paperwork, and it was a
page at a time.

So, I would fill out one page, and then they
would– and then I would have– I think it was– it was then Corporal Hanks,
later Sergeant Hanks that filled out or that examined the paperwork, and so I
would have to cross things out, because it was wrong, or, you know, or not what
they were expecting in terms of the dates, you know, they have their dates
different.

That was the following morning.

Defense (Coombs)

And, who was this?

Pfc. Manning

Captain Casamatta.This was my company commander at the
time, and I had– I didn’t know that they had actually PCS [Permanent Change of
Station ] move me to the Military District of Washington.

So, then I was introduced to my new company
commander, First Sergeant–Captain
Casamatta, and First Sergeant Williams.

They came to me the next day.It was great to talk to them, because I
got a run down of a lot of things I didn’t know in terms of PCS move and, you
know, where my belongings were, and what chain of command I fall under and everything
else.

So, I got a lot explained to me in that time
period.I felt reassured that I had
such an awesome, you know, company commander– was a very reassuring feeling,
you now, from being in a– and I know it sounds silly, you know, but, even
though it was Quantico Base Brig– it’s a prison, but, you know, but it was
just a permanent structure, at that time.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, and I imagine once you are at
Quantico, where you able to see family member?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I mean there was an indoctrination period.

So, I was given a booklet on what rules and
regulations I was– even though I was– I was on suicide risk status at that
time, but they allowed an exception.

They allowed my aunt to come and visit me.That was the first time I had seen
family members.

Defense (Coombs)

Where you able to meet with defense counsel?

Pfc. Manning

Defense (Coombs)

And, how were you checked when you were on MAX
status?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I was checked more frequently, because my
statuses were– because I had an additional status added on to– a part from
the classification with it.

I guess if you calculated, I think they only do
ten minutes checks for MAX status.

But, I don’t know, because I was never– I
never had anything less than five minutes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how would they check you for those five
minutes?

Pfc. Manning

I mean they would physically– I mean and when I
say physically I mean they would open– cause they were in an observation
booth.

They would open the door, and ask, you
know–They would verbally ask me
if I was okay.

Sometimes they poked their head out the door,
and have line of sight and then ask me.

And, I would always have to respond as a
courtesy to the– usually they assigned a Lance Corporal for that role, but
sometimes it was a Corporal, and that was how they– that was how they checked
on me during the daytime.

Defense (Coombs)

The SECNAV instructions indicates that if you
are on MAX you are not assigned outside work details.Were you assigned any outside work
details?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you even express any interest in being
assigned work details?

Pfc. Manning

It had been conveyed to me by Gunnery Sergeant
Blenis, when he was asking– whenever he was interviewing me for the first
time, that the jobs were available for, you know, if my status or custody level
had changed.

So, I said I am more of a clerical guy or good
with paper and stuff, and he was like– cause I did not know what was
available, so.

I am not really very good with physical
stuff.So, he told me that the only
thing like that was the library, so I expressed interest in that.

Alright. I want you to describe your cell, but in order to do that, I want to go
ahead and make use of what we have here in the Courtroom, okay?   

[Coombs is referring to an at scale
representation of Pfc. Manning’s cell at Quantico made with white paper tape on
the floor of the Courtroom.]

A9CamYrCQAAFUXA Image source: Clark Stoeckley

So, actually come up around this side for a
me.That’s okay.Now, looking at this, this cell.Do you know the dimensions of the cell
that you were in?

Pfc. Manning

It was roughly six foot by eight foot to
[missed word].

Defense (Coombs)

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Sir.

[Pfc. Manning places a sign with the word
‘sink’ written on it down in the sink outline made with white paper tape inside
the white paper tape representation of his former Quantico cell.]

Defense (Coombs)

And, then you said that this other area was the
toilet?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

It’s a– it comes– the bowl physically comes
out of the sink.

The metal bowl– stainless steel bowl– it’s
a– at a lower level.So, it’s
about a foot and a half to the actual seating area of the bowl.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, and if you put the sign where the
toilet is?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

[Pfc. Manning sits back in the witness
stand.]

Defense (Coombs)

So, this cell that we see on the courtroom
floor, how many hours out of the day would you be in this cell?

Pfc. Manning

Defense (Coombs)

Now, why would you be covering your face, or
turning your face away from the door?

Pfc. Manning

Well, when I am sleeping in– as I am sleeping
in 191 or 192, I have the light that’s directly outside.

I didn’t intend– I mean I would often try to
sleep so that, that way I wouldn’t get woken up.I mean even if it meant, you know,
having the bright light, you know, it seemed bright at that angle at least, you
know, with that light coming in.

I would try and fall asleep like that, but I
mean I ended up always rolling over, or covering myself just as I am asleep,
and then that would lead me to being woken up.

I mean, on Suicide Risk it happened sometimes
two or three times a night.

Defense (Coombs)

Where did you eat your meals when you were on
suicide risk?

Pfc. Manning

I ate every meal inside of the cell, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what were you permitted to have inside of
your cell, when you were on suicide risk?

Pfc. Manning

I was permitted to have– I don’t recall
exactly what clothing I was authorized a part from my– I think I had a
T-Shirt, underwear, and socks on the very first time that I was ever on Suicide
Risk.

And, then I had shorts, but they were– they
were Army standard PT shorts, but the loop inside of it had been taken
out.So, it was just the elastic
portion.So, they were modified PT
shorts.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you permitted to have your prescription
glasses?

It’s the Marine Corps.

And, you always– I mean every single time you spoke
to somebody, you used their rank or sir or ma’am, depending on– or Chief for
Chief Warrant Officer or you know Commissioned Officer, or what not, sir.

So, the customs and courtesies are never
ending, and they expect that at all times.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you allowed to have writing materials in
your cell when you were on suicide watch?

Pfc. Manning

I don’t recall being able to.

I don’t remember what the handling instructions
were for the first couple days I was– I had only just arrived, so.On reception status you are not
authorized.

So, I was on hybrid status for first week, I
think, where I was on a reception status, as well as suicide risk.

So, I would have only– I would only be
authorized the rule book, what they called the ‘Rules and Regulations’ for the
facility.It’s a Brig Order.

Defense (Coombs)

You said then after the first coupled of days,
then they did let you have your glasses?

Pfc. Manning

They did, sir–

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so let’s–

Pfc. Manning

I remember now it was the rank and the fact
that I can read with them, but I have to put it up to my face.

I am very near sighted.So, they were worried because I have
this book that was like right up to my face, and I talked to– I think it was
Gunnery Sergeant Blenis about that.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, let’s talk about what your life was
like during the period of time, that first time when you were on suicide
watch.

And, then they would place a– they don’t– On
Suicide Risk, they would sometimes authorize you limited access to a razor to
shave.

So, I would shave my face with– with a safety
razor.And then return that.

And, then they would announce ‘count’.There would be a– sometimes– sometimes
there was enough time to do that hygiene– shave your face– before count.Sometimes there wasn’t.

The suicide watch, without the reception hybrid
status, they would take me to ‘sunshine call’.

And then on– usually once a week I would be
pulled out to see Gunnery Sergeant Blenis.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what about showers.Were you ever taken out for showers?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, that is the other thing.It is in the housing unit, so it is
maybe fifteen meters from the exit to my cell.

Further out from, past the– past the point where
the sunlight is.

It’s called a sunlight, right?The hole in the ceiling– window– and
then you have the shower.Then,
that was were I took my shower was fifteen or twenty minutes [missed word] from
my cell.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how long were you provided to take a
shower?

Pfc. Manning

Usually between five and ten minutes on suicide
risk status with a guard standing directly outside of the shower, with line of
sight on me.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were there any other detainees near you
when you were on POI status?

Pfc. Manning

They were in special quarters.So, they weren’t necessarily adjacent to
me, or near to me.But, they
would– they would be– there were some detainees that I could hear down on the
same row.

And, certainly there was several detainees on a row on the other side of the
observation booth, where there would be a large commotion.

I mean there was a lot of mingling and things
and a lot of yelling.

So, I knew that they– that other detainees
were there.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you permitted to speak to other detainees
that are on your same row?

Pfc. Manning

Technically I was, but it had to be in a low
conversational tone, but if they are not near me– I mean even if I am talking
to someone– whenever you don’t have line of sight with anybody, so– low
conversational tone is– was anything other than yelling, so, no.

I mean, but I was technically allowed to speak
to other detainees, but in actually doing so I would be violating the
conversational tone– tone rules. So, in essence, no.

Defense (Coombs)

And, if you violated that rule by raising your voice,
what would happen?

Pfc. Manning

I would just try to stay active and I would
tryto keep from falling asleep,
because they– that was the rule. You were not allowed to sleep or look like– even the appearance of
sleep was considered sleeping.So,
you couldn’t close your eyes or anything like that.So, I would move around.Get blood pumping, instead of– just to
keep myself from sleeping– and drink– and I drank a lot of water, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Let’s talk about some other restrictions on POI.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you still only getting twenty minutes of
‘sunshine call’ when you were placed on POI from suicide sisk?

The same thing towards– in– during the autumn
timeframe, I was still going outside, even when it was like there was a light
mist.

This is recreation call so there– for
recreation call I didn’t have restraints. They would remove the restraints for outdoor.There was a feed tray.They would close me into the pen
area.

They call it the bullpen, which was maybe a
third of the size of an NBA basketball court, and they would remove my
restraints through the chain link bullpen feed tray.And, I would walk around.

They wouldn’t let me run for the longest time,
and it wasn’t a good idea either, because I was wearing boots, because they
didn’t let me have laces.

At some point, I got laces for my shoes.I don’t recall when or how, but I was
able to do a little jogging then, and play when they gave me a basketball,
so.

There was a hoop.It was probably about
eight feet, so it wasn’t regulation, but it was a basketball hoop– I could
use.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. And, let’s talk about the indoor rec
then.What could you do on the
indoor rec?

Pfc. Manning

There was less that I could do on the indoor
rec.They would take me into the
indoor recreation area.They would
have a chair.They would set me on
a chair.They would remove my
restraints.

This was the only time that they would actually
remove my restraints, while they were not going through a feed tray or
anything.So, they were a lot more
careful about how they did that.

And, then– I was always– I would have to stay
about ten or fifteen feet away from the guards, if I wasn’t– they wouldn’t let
me be near the guards during that time.

And, then I was in sort of an area– and I
always have three or four guards– and always an Non Commissioned Officer,
usually and E5 or E6, would be watching me while I am in there.And, I could walk around.

There was a– there was some spinners, which
are a bike with some resistance, which is set with a screw, and we adjusted
positions. Some guards authorize me to utilize that if I asked for permission
to use it, and they did.Used that
for cardio.And, there was a–
again, permission was required every time, but I would use the pull-up bars
and– they had a set of pull-up bars– and I would use those– use my own body
weight for exercises.

They also had a mat so I could do sit-ups and
pushups.There was on the sides of
the room, there were electronic exercise equipment that were there.

And, then they had a long cable that would plug
into the wall in the observation room.

And, then you would use it, and it went to a
system, and you pick up the phone, and you enter your pin number and a bunch of
other things, but it was only collect call out.

And, you had to make sure that the– that, that
phone number was authorized on the list of phone numbers.It was a complicated process, and I
don’t recall ever being able to call anybody, because most– one, I had issues
with the pin number.Two, I had
issues with the numbers being placed in the system.

And, three, I was– I was aware that most of
the phone– most cell phone companies don’t accept this type of collect
call.

So, almost everybody at the facility– and I
have been told by Gunnery Sergeant Blenis that most people weren’t able to make
phone calls using that system, because of all those little quirks and
complications with it.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you aware that the telephone calls that
you were making were being recorded?

Pfc. Manning

Using those– that– using that phone system
they would have been recorded– I also– there was a little bit of– I don’t
really want to call my aunt and have every word scrutinized, you know, like
that– like on her end.

So, I would tell her– I felt it was best just
to leave my aunt alone, and leave some of my friends alone in that respect.

Defense (Coombs)

During the time that– based upon the fact they
had recordings of your calls, you were able to occasionally call your aunt or
call family members?

Pfc. Manning

No, the system– not using the phone system
that was available for me on those– during off duty hours.

I never used– I don’t recall ever being able
to use that system.They had the
same phone system that we used for our attorney phone calls on– they gave us a
courtesy phone call, because some of the people were having issues with the phones
that they authorized.

There was a point with a– would take all– I
was told that all the other detainees had this happening as well.But, they took me out of the cell on
Thanksgiving day of 2010.I don’t
recall the day, I know it was a Thursday.

But, and they took me in for– in that area,
and they asked me.They had to
check with the phone number and everything, but I made a phone call to my
aunt.It was a ten minute phone
call. The guards were standing right next to me.

And, I told her that I was good, and that I
loved her and everything else.And,
then I called– and then for Christmas eve, I was given the same opportunity
for– they called it a ‘courtesy phone call’.Again, ten minutes, and I called
Tyler.

Those were the only two phone numbers that– I
actually knew three phone numbers, including yours, sir.But, those are the only three phone
numbers that I had memorized, so.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Now, were you allowed to have visitors at Quantico, now that you were on
POI?

Pfc. Manning

Very little.In terms of the effect– there were–
there were distinctions, but I always had a guard watching me.

I mean it was just a question of whether or not
it was through the glass window or not. And, I had some additional clothing for POI, for a period of time, so,
until March of 2011.

Defense (Coombs)

So, other than that, your estimation is that it
is roughly the same?

Pfc. Manning

Well, yes. I mean the distinction is so low that I wouldn’t really– I mean it’s a big–
it is sort of a big difference, in terms of from my perspective.

I saw him at least once a week for a long
period of time.I think there was a
period of time in which he went on leave, so– and then TAD [Temporary
Additional Duty] for, I don’t know. I forget. I think it is TAD for the Marines Corps, but there was a
period of time in which he left, and Staff Sergeant Jordan covered down.

He was the Army liaison officer as well as a counselor.So, I would speak to him in that role,
but Gunnery Sergeant Blenis was the– I think it is Master Sergeant Blenis
now.He got promoted, so.

Well, I mean at first I wasn’t asking him to
take me off of POI.I mean that
wasn’t how it worked.I would– I
would– He would bring it up.He
would bring up, ‘How’s it going with’ you know, ‘the docs?’

He referred to them– Master Sergeant Blenis
would refer to them as the ‘docs’. I mean I would say, ‘It’s Captain Hocter’So, I don’t want to degrade him or
anything.But, you know, he would
always ask me how I was doing with him, sir.

And, I would say, you know, ‘Things seem to be
going okay,’ you know.And, I would
tell him how things were going, and I would ask him how from the facility
standpoint, how he felt through– obviously I was asking him directly how the
facility was feeling about that issue.

And, he would always– whenever I did start
asking him, which was probably around mid-September I started asking about it,
because I had been on suicide watch for over two months at that point,
including the time in Kuwait, and I felt that was odd and unusual.

It didn’t seem normal from my vantage point,
and the guards were often– offline talking about the fact that I was on
suicide watch for a long period of time. And they would ask me– they kept on asking me, ‘When are you getting
off of…’ Well it wasn’t suicide watch, but, ‘…off of POI?’They referred to it as just, ‘suicide
watch’ or ‘Manning Watch.’

Defense (Coombs)

And, so when you were talking with Gunnery
Sergeant Blenis, you said, roughly in September time frame is when you started
raising the issue of , ‘When can I– might be able to get off of this?’

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. I remember my father visited me in early to mid September.Cause I know we were talking about the–
the issue with the– I forgot the name of the man– the pastor in Florida that
was threatening to– to burn the Koran on September 11th.

We were talking about that, and it hadn’t
happened yet, but so it was early September.And, it was around that timeframe,
because I remember that particular conversation that we were talking about when
my father visited, and that is when I raised the issue about the– well he
raised the issue about the POI– asking about, ‘How it is going with the
docs?”What are they telling
you?’and everything else.And, that was what Master Sergeant–
that is a quote from Master Sergeant Blenis, again–

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, and so then–

Pfc. Manning

–I am referring to the ‘docs’.

Defense (Coombs)

–as the months increased, and now we are going
into October, November, are you still having these conversations with Gunnery
Sergeant Blenis?

Pfc. Manning

Pretty consistently.As– I mean he would always ask about it
if I didn’t raise it.He would ask
about, you know, ‘What are they saying?’ you know, and then I started asking–
it wasn’t– there was a certain point in time.

I don’t– I think it was October, but I
started– I started asking Captain Hocter what about, you know, why he wasn’t
recommending me to come off of POI.

Because I didn’t know– I didn’t ask what his recommendations
were to the facility or anything like that.He kept on saying that he was
recommending me to comeoff of POI,
and then I– and then I was talking to Master Sergeant Blenis about the fact
that I was still on POI, and that– he kept on asking me about why the– he
kept on saying it was the ‘docs’ that were recommending to him that status, and
not the facility.

Well, nothing.He didn’t have any disciplinary– in
terms of disciplinary issues and things like that, he didn’t raise any thing
else.I have– He just– He kept on
asking about, and this is a quote, you know, ‘What are you saying to the
docs?’I mean, ‘Why? What is going
on with the docs and with your status and everything else?’

It was easier over time, sir. Before– before
the 2011 threshold.

So, by– by Christmas time I was feeling a
little bit better.Just, I mean– I
mean, I am not a big fan of that timeframe just cause it is the solstice and
its really dark and I like the light– or like sunshine and things like that,
sir.

I am not a big fan of winter but that is why I
don’t really like that timeframe, but.

But, you know, I wasn’t getting depressed or
anything.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Do you recall Captain Hocter placing you on POI during that timeframe
because he was worried about you getting depressed?

Pfc. Manning

I was– something about– I mean, I know you
testified yesterday about that– there was the twitter incident, as one of
the– as the DBS [Duty Brig Supervisor] referred to it at the time.

He asked me if I was alive– [missed a few
words] and he was like, ‘Oh yeah, there is a report on twitter that you’re
dead.’I was like, ‘I am not dead’
to the Duty Brig Supervisor at the time.

And then he left, and I then I think it was a
couple days later that Captain Hocter brought it up, but he had– I don’t know–
I don’t know when I was placed on POI before that, but I just kind of chuckled
that after I found out more information about that report or whatever it was–
and I didn’t hear about it or anything.

I knew that they had taken away TV privileges,
but they often would change– they would often change the schedule, so that way
I couldn’t see current events programs or watch news and things like that.

I always tried to– to figure out how I can get
the– get the news type programs on– things like that, you know– in terms of
the schedule– and schedule of calls and things, but they would avoid me
watching, you know, those types of shows, sir.

And, they– they– they just plain removed the
television at that point, and I was– I wasn’t happy about that, but I thought
it was for a completely different reason.

I don’t have any specific knowledge to
something of that effect, but I do recall sort of similar along those lines I
guess, not sleep walking but– television call on weekends was usually extended
an hour after taps.

So, you still had access to the TV, and
sometimes I would watch TV after lights out.So, I would have the TV there at a low
volume.So, that way it doesn’t
keep people awake.

If that was authorized, and I was taking–
again– I don’t remember if it was clonazepam or Klonopin– which one of those
it was– but I was taking that and it would make me drowsy.

So, I remember there is a– the bars are cross
thatched.They are a thatched iron
bar type thing, so I would have to put my face close up to the– to the grating
to see the TV, and sometimes I would doze off while I was doing it.

And, I remember it looked like I was– I
remember Corporal– it Corporal Sanders that stopped me at one point, and he
said that, ‘Don’t eat the bars!’ you know, ‘They are not eatable.’

Defense (Coombs)

[I believe I missed a question.]

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Master Sergeant Papakie.Whenever he did the rounds, he let me
relax once, sir.That is the
opportunity.When you are standing
at parade rest, you are not really allowed to say anything.Whatever they tell you to relax, you can
speak slightly a bit more freely.

So, I used that opportunity to raise my concern
about it.I didn’t put in– what’s
called a– they refer to it as a– as a ‘chit’.

It’s a– it’s a Department of Defense Form
5-10, which is– is a way that you convey communications apart from those
through your counselor.

I filled out one of those forms.I gave it to the guard.I don’t recall who it was.I think it was Corporal Miller.Again, I am guessing.

And, I gave him a- a chit, as they call
it.And, a– it was a general
complaint about, you know, being on prevention of injury status.

I don’t recall anything ever coming back on
that.So, as I– this, discussion
with you– and towards the end of December and early January I put in another
one. This time to the facility commander– and that staffing level as opposed
to, you know, just a through the counselors.

So, I went up to the– this one went through–
and I was worried that they might have lost the other one.So, I made a secondary copy.I wrote ‘copy’ and I wrote the exact
same thing.I put ‘copy’ and I
initialed it.It’s in a box with
Captain Tooman somewhere.I don’t
think that was part of anything– to discovery or anything.

Defense (Coombs)

So, these 5-10’s, what were you using these
for?

Pfc. Manning

I put it in.So, that way I could convey to the
commander the thought, and I looked into the rules and regulations of the
facility about C&A [Classification and Assignment] board and everything
else.

And, I– I specifically requested for– to have
a C&A board, or for one to convene, or for– or for me to be in one.I don’t remember the exact wording of
it.

But, I put it into– I made sure that it went
into the commander– with two mailboxes on a cart.That were– and I made sure that were brought
in, and I physically put it in myself through the feed tray while Lance
Corporal Miller– not Lance Corporal Miller– Lance Corporal Bell was the guard
that brought it in.

And, that was the– that was like early
January.It was like the 5th of January
or 6th or 7th.Somewhere around
that timeframe.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Do you recall also filing with my assistance an RCM [Rules for Court
Martial] 305(g) request to Col. Coffman [the Special Convening Authority] on 13
January [2011]?

Pfc. Manning

They did. I asked about how the process worked from their vantage point.They explained to me about the
recommendations– that they make recommendations to the commander.

That those recommendations are based on
information that they received through either the mental health professional,
the– the behavior reports, the watch’s’ logs, and all sorts of other
stuff.

I don’t recall the exact, you know, quotes or
anything.Just a lot of the– ‘We
use…’ and I am quoting Gunnery Sergeant Fuller, ‘We use a lot of different
information points to put a picture together and recommend it to Chief Warrant
Officer Four Averhart, and he– and we only make a recommendation.

‘We don’t– and,’ you know, ‘everyone else only
makes recommendations, but it is his final authority.’And, that was the way it was explained
to me.

So, then I tried to swing them into
recommending me to be off POI, but they, you know– I wasn’t prepared, because
I didn’t have any proof, and they wanted– they wanted evidence.

They kept on saying that, ‘We want evidence
that you are not a harm to yourself, beyond’ you know, ‘you saying that you are
not going to harm yourself.’

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. After this first board, do you– Well, actually– as part of this first
board do you recall one of the board members asking you about your intake
statement, ‘Always planning, never acting’?

Pfc. Manning

There was a heavy focus on that, and I didn’t
realize– I didn’t– I hadn’t remembered that– that statement was put down on
there on that form.

I mean, I remember thinking– cause I mean
during the time whenever I went through it– I mean, it was all fuzzy and I
was– and I had just arrived from Kuwait and everything else also, and I was
filling out all this paperwork and everything else.

You know, I remember being told, you know– you
had to fill something out.And, I
didn’t– and I explained that.I
conveyed that– that story to Gunnery Sergeant Fuller and so he’s like, ‘So
you– So you lied?!’

Correct. And, you know, I’m like, ‘Well, I don’t know.I don’t know how you do that.I don’t know how you leave that out.From my vantage point, you know I’m–
I’m the– I’m the– I’m the detainee. I mean there’s not– there is not a lot that I can do from my vantage
point.’And, that I understood from
that– from that– from that perspective.

You know, it was– I just kept– I mean, it
just felt weird because it was– it was– it felt so long ago that that– that
that was.And, that was brought
up.

And, that was so long ago.And, I was like, ‘Well, what about
now?’And then– and then it went
and it kept on coming back and forth to, ‘Well if we can’t trust you then, how
can we trust you now?’

It was just very– it was just a very
unsettling and adversarial moment. I felt– I felt like I was sort of put on the spot and being
interrogated at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, aside from this one time when the C&A
board quizzed you about this statement, did– did anyone else come up and talk
to you about this statement?

Pfc. Manning

Before that?

Defense (Coombs)

Right.

Pfc. Manning

Not to my recollection.I don’t recall that– I don’t recall Master
Sergeant Blenis raising it as an issue.

I don’t recall Chief Warrant Officer Averhart
Four raising it as an issue.I
didn’t– I spoke to him very– at the point in time, I spoke to him very
rarely.

And, Captain Hocter never said anything about
it.So, those were the people–
those were the people that I talked to about these types of issues, and Colonel
Malone, and they never really raised that.

Ah, no.

That was whenever I realized that the– the–
that they weren’t– that they had already read these things.They already have these documents.

I wasn’t sure if it was just Chief Warrant
Officer Four Averhart answering those, and the C&A board not being privy to
them.

I mean I knew that the counseling notes that
Gunnery Sergeant Blenis– I didn’t know what information they looked at a part
from data points and all this other stuff.

I didn’t know what specific documents they were
looking at there, but I felt that these were– they were convincing.

I felt like I could convince someone with
them.But, they– they had already
seen them and, you know, it was just sort of– then they returned back to the–
to– I remember they raised that– that question again at the intake– the
once– the once, because I was asked three times.

You know, ‘You were asked– you were asked
three times about whether you wanted to commit suicide.Two verbally and one written, and on the
written one you wrote down, ‘Always planning, always– always–‘

Defense (Coombs)

–‘planning, never…’

Pfc. Manning

‘Always planning, never acting,’ you know,
and– and I remember being like, ‘Well I said no.I am not suicidal.’And then they are like, ‘Well, there is a discrepancy so that– so we are
not sure if we can trust you.’

Defense (Coombs)

Now, after this did you– you said you went a
third time, what was your experience like the third time you went in front of
the board?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean I was– I was– I went in with the
same sort of– I don’t recall– I think it was a couple weeks after that, because
I felt like I wanted to simmer– let that simmer down because the– because
these boards were quite heated.

They got pretty heated on their end, and so I
felt– you know, I felt sort of taken aback.I mean I was more prepared the second
time, but I still felt in the end I was getting– I felt in the end it ended up
being like an interrogation over the question– over the question on the piece
of paper and then, you know.

I kept on trying to drive it out of there, but it
kept on coming back to that.So, I
came to the third time, and, you know, I was like, you know, I don’t really
have– I mean, I don’t really have anything more other than I have another two
weeks where I haven’t had a disciplinary issue or anything.

I though there was sort of– maybe it wasn’t–
I mean, maybe it wasn’t directed toward me, but there was like a general anger
behind them that they were gonna take out on me.

Defense (Coombs)

So as I am being told these different things, I
am trying to respond to them, and I am being given all these conflicting things
so I start to–So, I start to
panic a little bit, because I don’t know– I don’t know what’s about to happen.

And I– they’ve– they’ve– they’ve never
really acted like– I never had the guards act like that before, except for
whenever I was put into the intake process they were– for the– I call it a
‘shark attack’ again, you know, basic training style– you know, everything you
do is wrong no matter what, because you have different people giving you
conflicting orders, and you just execute as much as you can.

Defense (Coombs)

During this time do you recall becoming anxious
and lightheaded?

Pfc. Manning

I did. I became anxious as they were taking off the restraints, and giving me
the different instructions.I asked
them if, you know– I asked them to stop.

I didn’t– I mean, I might have– I might have
actually said, ‘Please…’– instead of, ‘Please stop.’I might have said actually, ‘Stop.’

But, you know I was– I just wanted them to
slow down a little bit, because and allow me to– to catch my breath and
understand, you know– but they continued at it and then I– as soon as they
were removed me from final restraints and then they give me more turn orders,
I, you know, I began to fall.

And, I remember GM 2 Webb in particular came at
me, as I was about to fall and I thought– and you know, I am not– this was
just my panic reaction.I thought
maybe that with the irritation and everything and the fact that– I thought I
was going to be attacked or assaulted or something like that.

I mean as silly as it sounds, and in
retrospect, but, you know, they didn’t do anything.I thought he was just coming at me.He was just coming to– to make sure I
didn’t fall, but my instant reaction was to get away from GM 2 Webb, who is a
bigger guy.

So, I wanted to get away from this large person
coming at me at a high rate of speed. And, I am not feeling very– my judgment was not perfect at that
time.

So, you know, I just got away and I got
emotional, and I didn’t– I didn’t want– I didn’t want them to come, you know,
rush me out with riot gear and stuff, so I– I said, ‘Please stop,’ you know,
‘I am not doing anything.

I am trying to cooperate as much as I can,’ and
I think I– I think at that point I stopped and I got a little bit emotional,
but they said, ‘We’re gonna get somebody here to talk to you.’I think– ‘We’re gonna get somebody
here,’ I remember GM 2 Webb trying to calm me down, and get this situation
under control.

Defense (Coombs)

And so, once– once GM 2 Webb was calming you
down–

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

–what happened next?

Pfc. Manning

A number of– of enlisted– a large number of
enlisted personnel from the facility entered in. I don’t recall exactly
who.

And, then Gunnery Sergeant Fuller, the Security
NCOI– NCO of the facility.I don’t
recall his exact– the exact title. But, he usually dealt with security and operations.

He came and talked to me, and got up– and I
explained to him what had happened and what was going on.And, then he– and then he said, you
know ‘We are gonna take care of it, and we are going to take care of you.Is there anything else you need?Do you need to talk to anybody?Do you need to talk to one of the…one
of the [MD?]’Their term ‘docs’
again.’Would you like to speak
with anybody?’

I said, ‘No, I just– I just,’ you know, ‘I
just wanted– I just wanted them,’ and I explained that, you know, ‘I felt like
they were being rough with me.’ Maybe not intentionally or not, but, you know, I just felt like I was
being roughed around a little bit in terms of the ‘shark attack’ [missed a few
words], sir.

I wanted to continue on with my rec as normal,
and they allowed me to do that, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you continued on with your rec as
normal did you have any other issues during rec hall?

Pfc. Manning

I did not, sir.I thought– I thought everything had been
dealt with at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

And then, after rec hall where did you go?

Pfc. Manning

They took me back.It was different– there were two
different guards I remember.GM 2
Webb was still the— the DBS [Duty Brig Supervisor] at the time, but they
transferred me back to my cell, and I returned back to my cell.

Defense (Coombs)

So, when you say two different guards, they
replaced Lance Corporal Tankersly and Cline?

Pfc. Manning

I don’t know if– they change guards out pretty
frequently, so don’t know– I mean sometimes they don’t, sometimes they do, you
know, I am not privy to that.

So, I don’t know who, did what or why.

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I don’t recall how long afterwards– after that it was.It was at least 45 minutes, if not, a
couple of hours.

Again, it’s been a long time since this
happened.There was an increase in
the buzz at– in the special quarters area.And, then Chief Warrant Officer Four
Averhart came to speak with me directly outside my cell.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what did he say to you?

Pfc. Manning

He stopped and stood right outside my
cell.And, I stood.I mean, of course, the whole housing
unit is at attention for him.

And, then they didn’t– they didn’t– I don’t
remember if they said, ‘Carry on,’ or not but then he told me to, you know, he
didn’t tell me to relax or anything.

So I am standing at attention as he’s saying,
you know, ‘We just had– we just had an incident,’ you know, ‘Why’d you…’–
and I remember him saying something to the effect of– of, you know, ‘Why are
you violating my trust?I’ve
allowed you to– I ‘ve allowed you to have this recreation call, so why are you
causing trouble,’ and everything else.

I didn’t get a chance to explain– until after
I had been sort of– I don’t want to use the term– the best term I could think
of right now off the top of my head is ‘lecture’.

I don’t mean that in a demeaning way or
anything to a field grade Warrant Officer. But, you know, that’s how I felt at the time.

Defense (Coombs)

So, he was asking you questions about what
happened?

Pfc. Manning

No. No. No. He was saying– he wasn’t asking–
he didn’t ask questions until later.

He said, ‘Why are you violating my trust with
your activities and your…? I’ve allowed you,’and I specifically remember him saying,
‘I’ve allowed you to have this recreation time.I’ve change the special handling
instructions.’

And, he told me that if– and he went back to,
if he told– told– as he told me before, you know, he’s allowing me to–
this– this exception– the policy essentially and if I violated that trust,
then he would put me back on, you know, put me back to having regular rec
call.

And, I was afraid that he was going to take
that away at that point.And, then
he started asking me questions as– assuming I was given the opportunity to– I
think Master Sergeant Papakie came– passed by.I don’t remember of that was the case or
not.But, I was told to relax at
some point and then he started asking me questions.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what questions was Chief Averhart asking
you?

Pfc. Manning

You know, he came back to, ‘Why are you’ you
know, ‘my trust, as’ you know, ‘your a detainee, and you are a high
visibility–‘

He didn’t say ‘high visibility’ but essentially
‘a detainee at this facility that’s’ you know– you know, ‘Why– why are you a
detainee that wants to cause trouble?’ essentially.

‘Sir, I don’t know.I don’t want to cause– I don’t want to
cause trouble.I don’t want to
cause– I am trying not to cause any situations or incidents or anything like
that.’I– I apologized for any
confusion and et cetera.

Defense (Coombs)

Did there come a time when you asked him why
you were still on POI?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. This was maybe at least five minutes into this– into this conversation,
and it turned into a conversations.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did he respond to you?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I started, you know, being told to relax
and not be at attention, I felt more compelled to be able to speak my mind a
little bit, and I felt like this was an opportunity since I had the senior staff
there, you know just to– just to make one more– to make one– have one more
change to argue and to try to keep them from effectively putting me on, you
know– to take my recreation call away, which was my concern at that time.

And, and, he was not happy about the fact that
I started to– to ask questions and state, you know, that I felt that– that,
you know– you know, I felt that I was trying so hard and why couldn’t I just
get a little bit more.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did he respond to your questions about
POI?

Pfc. Manning

He– he gave me the– he gave me the answer
that, you know, ‘It’s my decision. This is my facility.I am
the Brig Commander,’ you know, ‘ I am the Brig OIC [Officer in Charge].I am the Brig Commander,’ you know, they
don’t really use the term ‘Commander’ by itself, but ‘I am the Brig OIC,’ and
‘I make the decisions, and you,’ and he said quite a number of times, you know,
‘I feel like you violated my trust,’ you know, ‘in allowing you to have this
privilege.’

And, I countered that with, you know, I felt
that I should not be on POI.And,
you know, I have put in these complaints and things, and the, you know, the 138
complaint had been put in at this time, you know, I started to talk about
that.

I went back to attention and just listened.
And, then he left and said– he yelled– and I remember Master Sergeant Papakie
was– was there at this time.

I am standing at attention, and he said to the
guards who were standing outside the booth, and they had sort of their jaw– a
jaw drop look on them– he said– he turned to them and said, ‘Special move. SR
[Suicide Risk]’

And, I– I lost my demeanor at that point, and
then I humbled– I mean I was like– I can’t believe, you know– you know, I am
trying to keep from losing my recreation call, and I am being put on– I am
going back to square one since I got here.

And, I almost– I almost punch the wall.I mean I was so pissed, anxious,
furious, just a lot different– just shock, you know.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you striking yourself in the head during
this time?

–then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. At that moment did you know that they were video taping you?

Pfc. Manning

I saw the video camera at some point.I did not think that they were recording
the entire conversation.

I thought that they– I saw– I saw at some
point, I don’t remember where, I was like, ‘Is that a video camera?’ Because I
hadn’t seen a video camera in a very long time.So, it struck me as something odd.

I didn’t even know that they had such a thing,
as a hand held camera .Because
there were cameras in the ceilings everywhere– you know, in the facility, but
this was the first time I had seen a digital camcorder.I thought they were [missed a word]
going to happen, but I didn’t think they were recording me at the time.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so.The– the time period when Chief
Averhart leaves to the time period that Master Sergeant Papakie now is there
talking to you in your cell.How
much time would you estimate has transpired?

Pfc. Manning

I don’t recall.I really don’t.Minutes.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, what we’re going to do, is we are going to go ahead and to take a look at the two videos from that time period, and I am going to ask you a few questions about that.

Pfc. Manning

Alright. I’ve– I’ve got the screen there, so.

[A video of Pfc. Manning standing behind the cross thatched bars of his Quantico cell, being forced to hand over his clothes is having the following exchange with two senior staff members and guards at the Quantico Brig on 18 January 2011.

A9X7ccZCAAAJzks Image source: Clark Stoeckley

In the video are Pfc. Manning, Master Sergeant Papakie, Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, and Gunners Mate 2nd Class Webb.

Because of technical problems, only audio was available to the press pool.The video, however, was viewable in the courtroom.

A transcript of the video was available in the defense Article 13 motion. I have left some speakers that I could not name labeled as they are in the Article 13 motion, vis. ‘redacted’ or ‘XXXXXXXXXX’.]

Master Sergeant Papakie

I know what you’re getting at, ok? I’m telling you that we’re not outside the rules and regulations of anything that we’re doing. Period. We’re not. So I need your clothes.

Pfc. Manning

That’s fine, sir. [Manning strips to his underwear. The rest of the conversation takes place with PFC Manning in his underwear].

XXXXXXXXXX

Skivvies say on?

Other Guard

yes. … leave those on.

XXXXXXXXXX

We’re going to get someone over here to talk to you. … You have one mattress, right? You have the one suicide blanket, right?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. Yes, sir.

XXXXXXXXXX

Shower shoes are fine. Let’s get the doc over here. XXXXXXXXXX Sit down and see what’s going on. Alright? I need you calm right now, alright? The escalation in your demeanor, alright, weighs us on the side of caution. Do you understand that?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, MSGT.

[Video resumes.]

Master Sergeant Papakie

The best way to explain that to you is you had an outburst. You were moving around. You almost punched a wall. You’re kind of throwing yourself around in the cell. To make sure you don’t hurt yourself we’re putting you on a suicide risk status. We’re upgrading your status.

Pfc. Manning

But I’m not a suicide risk.

Master Sergeant Papakie

That’s not for me to decide. I have to make sure, the brig officer has to make sure, that you’re taken care of.

Pfc. Manning

I understand MSGT.

Master Sergeant Papakie

In the manner that you’re not going to hurt yourself. Right now, I don’t know that. With the display I saw right now, I’m not comfortable with. He’s not comfortable with. Until we get something otherwise, this is how it’s going to be.

Pfc. Manning

Why was I on, why was I on prevention of status for almost 6 months?

Master Sergeant Papakie

[chuckles to himself] I know this is no secret to you … I have plenty of documentation. Plenty of documentation based on things that you’ve said, things that you’ve done. Actions – I have to make sure, we have to make sure, that you’re taken care of.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, MSGT.

Master Sergeant Papakie

Things that you’ve said and things that you’ve done don’t steer us on the side of "ok, well, he can just be a normal detainee." They make us stay on the side of caution.

Pfc. Manning

But what about recommendations by the psychiatrist to remove me off the status?

Master Sergeant Papakie

Who’s here every day? Who’s here every day? We are. Who sees you every day? That’s all he is, is a recommendation. We have, by law, rules and regulations set forth to make sure from a jail standpoint that Manning does not hurt himself. Maybe from a psychiatric standpoint, the recommendation he’s given, I get it, I got it, understand, OK? But he’s not the only decision maker. A mental health specialist is not the only decision that gets made.

Pfc. Manning

I understand that, sir.

XXXXXXXXXX

However…

[Video resumes.]

[XXXXXXXXXX leaves and XXXXXXXXXX enters]

[inaudible]

Pfc. Manning

I got dizzy …

XXXXXXXXXX

Wasn’t dehydration?

Pfc. Manning

No, I was anxious because I didn’t know why the guards were so edgy. … They raised their voice … And I didn’t … I was getting anxious because they were getting anxious. So I was trying to figure out what was the cause of them getting anxious. It seemed to me that they were looking for something wrong…

XXXXXXXXXX

Something wrong as in a rules violation, or something wrong as in …

Pfc. Manning

Yes.

XXXXXXXXXX

Rules violation?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. Because I’ve been here for a long time, so everything becomes automatic. So I don’t know if I say something and they respond. I don’t know what happened. I’ve been in, inside so long – I don’t remember the last time I was outside.

…

[Portions of the rest of the dialogue between XXXXXXXXXX and PFC Manning are inaudible]

XXXXXXXXXX

So, let’s go back to when you fell down. Did you fall down or did you sit down? Or…

I am just trying to talk to him about, you
know– trying to show him– I just remember, I wanted to convey to him that,
you know– I am not trying to be a problem.

And, you know, I am trying to talk to him about
POI status and everything else.

Just– just the usual– I mean, this– this–
apart from the fact that we have the bars in between us, sometimes we would
talk like this in the office.

This is much like the conversations that we
would normally have.Except
obviously I was in boxers and [missed last word].

Defense (Coombs)

And, so at this point all you have on is just
your boxers?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Sir. That is correct.

Defense (Coombs)

And, Ma’am.The defense motion does its best to give
an audio version of this.I don’t
believe this is very long, but I do believe that the audio get a little better.
If it doesn’t, I don’t believe it is necessary for you to see all of it.

[A second video plays.Because of technical problems, only audio was available to the press pool.The video, however, was viewable in the Courtroom.

A transcript of the video was available in the defense Article 13 motion. I have left some speakers that I could not name labeled as they are in the Article 13 motion, as redacted or XXXXXXXXXX.]

Pfc. Manning

Ah, it was mixed. I mean, I was getting lightheaded because I was hyperventilating. So, I was trying to stand up. I was trying to keep from falling because I was worried that if I fell, then everybody would panic and that would make matters worse. So, I tried to stand up and I ended up falling…

…

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Take me from end of rec hall to … where we are now …

Pfc. Manning

Ok, yes, I started, I got in here and it was normal. And then I started reading my book. And then, I want to say it was MSGT [inaudible] that was the first to show up. And then he came in and was asking me all these questions. I was, ah, trying to figure out how to word the answers without causing any more anxiety. I was trying to figure out ways of not sounding, or not being construed as … ways that things weren’t going to be construed so that … just trying to figure out ways in which I could tactfully say what I was trying to say without violating any rules and regulation or raise any concern about …

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Concern’s already raised… [inaudible]

Pfc. Manning

Yes,
but I’m trying not, I’m trying, I’m trying to avoid the concern, and it’s
actually causing the concern. I mean, cause, I’m getting … every day that
passes by, I’m getting increasingly frustrated, I’m not going to lie. Because
I’m trying to do everything that I can not to be a concern, therefore I appear
as though I am causing more concern. Or I … Or it seems that I’m causing more
concern or everybody’s looking for something to cause concern. So that’s what
frustrates me. … Trying to work out the most politically correct way of …

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

[largely
inaudible] Let’s go back to today. … The anxiety here, today. That’s not the
first time it’s happened since you’ve been in confinement. As far as I know, it
is the first time it’s happened since you’ve been here … but a similar
situation …

Pfc. Manning

I
wasn’t, in Kuwait, I had no idea what was going on generally.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

But,
would you say it was similar situation?

Pfc. Manning

No,
no. The situation that happened today was more of … you know, I’m lucid and
aware and just trying to figure … It’s just a question of trying not to
appear like I was in Kuwait. Because that’s my main concern every day, is how
do I get off of POI status? How do I get off of POI status? When will I be
taken off of POI status? What is being used to justify the precautions? You
know … What concerns, you know, what am I doing that’s concerning
[inaudible]? So I’m constantly trying to figure out, run through all of those
things. And trying to make sure I’m not doing anything…

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

[inaudible] … As time goes on, we have less of a concern, ok?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, GYSGT. But the restrictions were still in place. And I was …

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Right.
And we continually… We understand it’s not normal that we have someone in POI
for this period of time…

Pfc. Manning

Yes.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

It’s
not [normal] … I guess we’ll just leave it at that. So as we go on, we’re
going to lessen your restrictions. They’re still be restrictions in place …
[inaudible] But I would have to disagree with you as far as what happened today
happened in Kuwait … anxiety attack …

Pfc. Manning

No,
in Kuwait, I wasn’t lucid. I had… [guard interrupts]. It was like a dream…

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

But,
they both ultimately ended up in you having an anxiety attack … controlled
fall, but …

Pfc. Manning

No, I don’t remember falling in Kuwait at all.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Well,
I can tell you, that’s what was reported to us … none of us were there
[refers again to PFC Manning’s suicide status Kuwait] … Us, as a facility, we
have to always err on the side of caution, okay. And not just the side of
caution, but over-caution. Especially when we’re talking about suicide, okay?
Nobody’s saying you’re going to kill yourself, alright? [inaudible] But we
always have to be more cautious than that. But you’re saying that ‘nobody else
is on suicide watch.’ The thing is what happened in Kuwait, what happened today
…

Pfc. Manning

Those
are totally different. I understand, I understand, I understand, where you’re
getting that … from the documentation. I mean, I quite, I know where I am. I
know I am … I know I am at Quantico base facility. I know that I’m at a brig.
I mean, I’m lucid and aware of where I am. I’m not …

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

You
asked [MSGT] a question … about why you’re on suicide watch, I’m trying to
answer that question, okay? Did I answer that?

Pfc. Manning

Uh
– no. No, with context. Because the fact that …

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

[inaudible] Did you understand that?

Pfc. Manning

I
would have understood had … had I not been … I would have understood had
… had I not been … I mean, I’m trying to think of how to word this proper
…

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Provoked? Provoked?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, a little. I feel like the facility, honestly, I feel like the facility is looking for reasons to keep me on POI status.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Inaudible.
I can tell you ‘no’…

Pfc. Manning

I
mean, at least not at the staff level, I’m thinking the CO [Commanding Officer]
– me, myself, personally.

Master Sergeant Papakie

Inaudible … From a logistical
standpoint, it’s a burden on us. …

Pfc. Manning

Yes,
MSGT.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Nobody
finds that as a joy. It’s not a punitive thing, I understand why someone would
see it as a punitive thing because restrictions placed [inaudible] … I can
tell you that … since you have been here … I wish I had a hundred Mannings
…

Defense (Coombs)

Did you hear there– where he told you–
Gunnery Sergeant Blenis said as far as your conduct, ‘I wish I had a hundred
Mannings’?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, I did.I heard very often from then Gunnery
Sergeant Blenis.

[Video resumes.]

Pfc. Manning

And that’s what… And that’s where I don’t understand why the continuation of the policy and restrictions beyond the time recommended by you and the psychiatrist. I mean the psychiatrist, is saying. I mean, I’ve got my own forensic psychiatrist that’s saying now that the POI status is actually doing psychiatric harm and not, you know, and it’s actually, you know, increasing my chances, rather than decreasing…

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Did you feel like that two weeks ago?

Pfc. Manning

What’s that?

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Did you feel like that two weeks ago?

Pfc. Manning

Yes GYSGT.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Uh, two weeks ago, I asked you, like, how you were feeling and you said you were fine, do you remember that?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, and I still feel fine. I mean, I feel, I feel fine, but at the same time, I’ve been putting in, I’ve been putting in…

[Second video ends.]

Judge Lind

Is there any copy of this that has a better audio?A clearer audio? [Missed a few words.]

Defense (Coombs)

Your honor, [missed a sentence]. [Missed] tried
to provide a transcript. [Missed a few words] can’t find it.But, this is the best copy that we have
been provided.

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Ma’am.If it is listened to on an individual
computer, it substantially clearer than over loud speakers.

Judge Lind

Alright. Thank you.

Defense (Coombs)

[to Judge Lind]

It is– I believe attachment 25 of the
defense’s motion.

[to Pfc. Manning]

So, Pfc. Manning, looking at that video, what
thoughts come back to your mind today?

Defense (Coombs)

Pfc. Manning

Very similar things to what he had stated in
the video we had just seen.But, he
was a lot more relaxed and there wasn’t as much tension, sir.

It’s one of the few times I was given an
opportunity to speak at level with him. So, I don’t have to stand at parade rest.I can sort of, you know, be myself, and
maybe speak my mind, and maybe talk to him a little but about different things.

Defense (Coombs)

What do you recall him saying to him about POI?

Pfc. Manning

Particularly with prevention of injury, it went
back to– you know, ‘We have concerns,’ you know, ‘about what happened in
Kuwait,’ you know, ‘We are not trusting you,’ you know, ‘We’re not…you’re
doing,’ you know, ‘You’re doing what you’re suppose to but then,’ you know,
‘there are things that we’re concerned about.’

I slept with my POI blankets, my prevention of
injury blankets and mattress.

The morning of March 3rd was the first day that
I had the special handling instructions changed.

So, they called– they announced, ‘Reveille
Reveille Reveille’ as they do every morning at zero five.

And– and– I stood and I grabbed– I grabbed
the POI blanket and I stood at parade rest for, ‘Stand by for count.’

They announce, ‘Stand by for count.’So, I sat that for maybe two to three
minutes with the POI blankets over me, sitting upright, because I wasn’t
allowed to lay down with the lights on.

And then I stood at parade rest with the
blanket until and I couldn’t see because of my glasses were taken away.

So, one of the guard– the guard that was in
the observation booth opened the door a crack and stated– he stated or asked,
‘Is that you stand at parade rest, detainee Manning?’

And I say– I wanted to clarify, you know, if
he– if he wanted– I requested if he wanted me to place it– and he– I don’t
recall if he said, ‘You know what to do,’ or something like that, but I knew, you
know, I knew it was an indirect command.

So, I placed my POI blanket back on the
mattress, and stood at parade rest.

Defense (Coombs)

–and then they called us back to parade rest
after. And, then they announced, ‘Count clear,’ you know.Over– they open the door and said,
‘Count clear,’ you know, or, ‘Carry on.’

So, I– and, then I proceeded to sit back down on
the– on the– one the mattress until the guard came by with my clothing and
glasses.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so.The time period that you are up front
standing naked and they announce the– the fact that they are going to do the
count, how long are you there standing naked either at parade rest or attention
before the count is done.

Pfc. Manning

I was standing at parade rest for about three
minutes.

Pfc. Manning

No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, after they complete that count, and you are
sitting on your rack, with your blanket covering you.How much time goes by before they give
you your clothes?

Pfc. Manning

Only about a minute or two. I mean it was
fairly quickly after that.It was
that they– they waited for the count, because they brought me a razor.

No. They started to put my clothing into the feed tray at– about five or 10
minutes before they announced, ‘Reveille Reveille Reveille’.

So, as soon as the lights come on, and they
announce,’Reveille Reveille
Reveille,’ the clothing is there.

–sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Before we going into our next and last section, if I could.Can we have another fifteen minute
break?

Judge Lind

Any objection?

Prosecution (Fein)

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Alright Court is in recess then until 20
minutes to 19 hundred, or seven o’clock.

Do you recall, well she reports that your communication
with her changed overtime, were you became more quiet and withdrawn.

And I spent most of the time listening at first
to her, and then whenever– and I feel like I, you know– she took me down, she
sat me down.

So, I was sitting down in restraints, across from
her on the table.I mean, not
really ‘across’, but you know, we had a corner of the table.

So, you know, we are not exactly far apart from
each other.She– and then, you
know, she allowed me then to speak my mind a little bit.

But, as I am speaking my mind, she stops me and
she says, ‘Oh, may I remind you that I am a Chief Warrant Officer Two in the
Marines Corp and that you are a junior enlisted detainee,’ and you know, ‘the
rank still applies here,’ you know, and so that, you know–

My father. He had come by a few times. I don’t recall the exact dates, and, you
know, he had conveyed to me, you know– we just talked– I mean we just talked,
you know, in general a couple times about things, and then– and then I
remember–

Well, I didn’t have much stuff in my cell to
begin with– what I was transferred with.

They put me in full restraints.Moved me to the cell adjacent to me, and
put me into the cell with all of my belongings and everything.

Removed the– part of the restraints, and then
I started to pack my things, and put it into a container– like all of the soap
dishes and, you know, uniforms and stuff.

And, then there was a trash bag, which I threw
away a bunch of other, you know, stuff, and then– and then they carried– they
put me back in the restraints, and moved to the out-processing and in
processing area of the Brig.

And, with– and they carried the container with
all my belongings, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, then once you were out-processed from the
Brig, where did you go?

Pfc. Manning

I was out-processed– I mean, well I was
out-processed into the– the– the in processing and out-processing area,
whichever it was.

They inventoried my things, and that period, and
then I– I remember there was some Army officials particularly, Mr. Stroebel, I believe was his name.And, he had a PMG [Provost Marshal
General] shirt.That’s [missed
word] there from Provost Marshal General shirt, and he said that– he explained
to me the process of what was going on.

That I was being transferred.And how that transfer was going to
work.You know, how the flight and
everything was going to work.How
the timing and everything was going to work.And, you know– that he was the– he
essentially called himself, the ‘OIC of the transfer,’the Officer in Charge, sir.

But– we then moved out of the facility, where
there was a lot of– it was like a bunch of– there were a lot of soldier–
soldier uniforms, ACU’s.

But, they were CID personnel.So they were Chief Warrant Officer Four et cetera.

But, I mean there as a lot of weird movement
and stuff, and I was transferred to the Quantico airfield, in I think a [missed
word] of police.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, let’s skip now to arriving at Fort Leavenworth, okay?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, when you arrive at Fort– Fort Leavenworth,
what happens when you start to in process at the JRCF?

Pfc. Manning

We brought– they brought me to– they brought
me– they brought me into the intake area directly.

So, I didn’t see the outside of the
facility.They brought me into
basically the in processing section of the facility.

They removed my restraints.They removed– I had some– I had some
kind of body armor on.

They removed that, and then I had JRCF
personnel– told me to face the wall, instead of parade rest. Told me what–
then I was– then they brought me through the in processing process– the intake
process at JRCF, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, as you started to go through the in
processing process, did they ever place restraints back on you?

Pfc. Manning

They did not.And, that surprised me.

They took. They removed the restraints and they brought me– and they strip
searched me, and then they showered me, and they did scars, marks,
tattoos.I do it every time I come
in and out.Same thing.

But, they strip searched me– I mean, after the
strip search, they showered me.

Then, they brought me out, and throughout this
entire process, no restraints.

Well, I mean I am not used to being outside of
anything without restraints at that point in time.

I wasn’t scared at all.I mean I was just concerned, you know–
and I knew– I had gotten use to– I had gotten use to these procedures, and
just assumed that they would be re-implemented at some point.

I thought somebody in the Chain of Command
just– there might have been a miscommunication of something, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, then the next morning starts and what
happens?

Pfc. Manning

The next morning comes, the door opens and I am
lead out– well, nobody leads me out.

They just go over the intercom and say, you
know, ‘Manning. You’ve got medical…’

I received– I had a blood test.I had my blood drawn, by a nurse outside
of my cell, sir.There as no
restraints or anything like that.I
thought, again, I wasn’t use to that.

Defense (Coombs)

And, you said how long was this indoctrination
process?

Pfc. Manning

It was a couple days. They brought– I mean
they later, in that morning had took me out of the cell, and– or they opened
the door again.So, it just opens
up.

And, then they tell me to come out, or get
into– get into my uniform.Come
out. And, I go to a line up with another pretrial– and some other post trial
detainees, or inmates.

They separated us and then we were led off to a
classroom for several hours.

We did this for a couple of days.They issued more items– and fill out
more paperwork, and see more people, and just– this took about six or seven
days, sir.

Another pretrial inmate, yes.

There was a– there was an altercation in
December of 2011.That was about a
week before the Article 32, yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what happened?

Pfc. Manning

You know– I mean I had been there for a
while.

We actually moved housing units into this
[missed word] housing– a housing unit where pre-trials were held in a housing
unit, separate from everybody else.

But, you know– So I was in the cell– I was in
my cell.And, then it was like
afternoon– it was a Saturday.

So, I, you know– I was just– was mostly just
sleeping, cause it’s a Saturday and I felt like sleeping that afternoon.Just to take a nap.

And, I got out, and it was time for chow.So, I– I stood by for chow, to get frisk
searched. And, then I remember– I remember the feeling that– that this
particular inmate was– was– sort of, just making fun of me, and attacking me,
and just sort of a theory I had– I am not use– I am not use to this sort of–
and I had just woken up– and I was sort of drowsy as well.

So, I mean, he started to– I felt like he
started to– to attack me verbally. And, you know– and I tried to ignore it, because this is something–
this is not unusual, but the intensity and the– the intensity of this.

And, I have never had– I’ve never felt like–
I never felt this point this sense of verbal attack– and then verbal attack,
and then me being, you know– this sense, you know, being made fun of for not
responding to it, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

You apparently did respond to it in a way in
which you got into trouble?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. Yes, sir.I did.I– I don’t know what was said.He said– this particular– I felt that
this particular inmate said directly something to me.

And, I– I responded.I mean, I just moved in and I– and I
went– and I– and I tried to punch him.

I mean I guess I tried to go for the face, but
I ended up hitting the shoulder of this– taller, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, then after that were you punished?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean I was removed from the housing
unit at that point.

–when you got to the JRCF did you continue to
see other forensic psychiatrists?

Pfc. Manning

Not a psychiatrist.There was a psychologist,who worked primarily at the disciplinary
barracks, and she was there for my in processing as well.

Well, she came in after I was– been– going
through the in processing.

And, introduced herself, and I told her I
wasn’t comfortable with– I didn’t– I mean, she had been working at the JRCF
full time.

She worked at the disciplinary barracks across
the street.And so, she– I mean it
was a brand new facility as well, but, you know, I talked to her.

I talked to her on– on a– once a– once a
month or so, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at this point– did there come a time
where you no longer were being seen by any mental health professionals?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. I haven’t seen– a clinical– in a clinical sense a– I don’t know if–
if I seeing– Doctor Galloway [sp.] in a clinical sense.

Pfc. Manning

Okay. And then the last part of that. That was when you had the confidential communications– well, when you have your communications with defense counsel you would go to the other office.

What about telephone calls that were recorded or from your cell, how did that work?

Pfc. Manning

Your Honor, for purpose, you could probably can see that right now, the form.

There are no, at least here, forms before 19 August.

[to witness]

I did– I did not have– it was getting cold in there. And, I did not have– although, most of the– most of the detainees at that facility from what I understand, had been– they were issued sweats.

Prosecution (Fein)

So, during those discussions you were never– you never reached out to them and say, ‘Listen, can y’all help with whatever it takes to get me off of this status?’

Pfc. Manning

I did do that, sir, yes.

Prosecution (Fein)

You did?

Pfc. Manning

I did do that, sir. Within– I don’t recall how early it was, but, you know, I did talk to Captain Casamatta frequently about it, because he was very concerned about the fact that I was on– on a restrictive status.

–I remember– and I don’t know who the DBS was at the time, but they– they can’t force me to sign the document.

They started– I mean they were– they were– I mean, the way I was perceiving it was that it was an order.

‘Here is a voluntary statement. Sign this.’

So, they– so, Sergeant Garnet [sp.] gave me this, said, ‘Fill this out.’

I had refused to sign it, and it was uncomfortable– there was some problems with that.

And, that is what I was more familiar with, because these didn’t have a lot of that– those boxes in it and et cetera. I wasn’t sure what the legal status of these documents.

Prosecution (Fein)

But, that started in December, correct? Before December you were signing them?

Pfc. Manning

Well we have– we have the records of these [missed word]. There were instances were– were I– before this– were I would fill out a sworn statement or a voluntary statement, not knowing it was a sworn, not knowing that it could be used as a sworn statement.

I don’t know. Again, I don’t know the legal status of these documents. I still don’t, and, you know– I filled them out before hand with no issue, because, you know, my recreation call would be secured, you know– because I didn’t want to finish my recreation call.

I mean, we are talking about November October timeframe of 2010, but whenever they started to not be able to fill that in, and tell me to that I needed to fill these out, I got uncomfortable, sir.

And, so that is whenever these crossing out and these awkward moments started happening, sir. It was around the December timeframe.

Prosecution (Fein)

Thank you. Your Honor, I am retrieving from the [witness?] what has been marked as appellate exhibit 426 Charlie.

Yes, sir. And, when ‘Stand by for count,’ would be announced, sir.

The wording of the statement, and I can’t see, because I don’t have glasses on. So, I can’t see who is in the observation booth.

That was how– that was how– that was what I did. I was like– I was like, ‘Can you rephrase that,’ I mean, ‘Is that– is that what you want me to do? Do you want me to set the blanket down?’

And, there was a moment where, I would [missed word] that was, ‘Yes,’ you know. I did– I did seek clarification. I remember that.

Prosecution (Fein)

So, you specifically asked them, ‘Do you mean you want me to put the blanket down?’

Pfc. Manning

Yes. Yes, sir.

Prosecution (Fein)

So you didn’t say, ‘What do you want me to do?’ It was, ‘You want me to put–‘

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean yeah. I have to– I have to word things from sort of a third person, because it’s a– it’s a Brig, sir.

So, I would have to word– word it as, ‘Detainee Manning requests clarification on the order–‘ or something like that. Something that I had to.

Prosecution (Fein)

Okay. But so, you would then say, ‘Detainee requests clarification on that order?’

Pfc. Manning

Yeah. But I don’t know– I don’t know if that is exactly the wording I said. I was groggy. I mean– it was 05 in the morning, sir.

Prosecution (Fein)

Okay, sir. Ah, excuse me [for calling him ‘sir’].

You were also ordered, the same time that you were in that– that other CHU. You were ordered not to access a computer?

Pfc. Manning

Pfc. Manning

Just to make sure that everybody that knew– because my– my concern was that– was that nobody– because if I’m– if– if I’m going 72, you know, 96 hours– 72 or 96 hours without updating anybody, I mean I was worried that somebody might think that I might have passed away– I might have got killed or injured or something like that, sir.

Prosecution (Fein)

Now, to bring you back to the Brig, and– and really to focus on visitation and visitors. You– you were allowed to have visitors, while you were at Quantico?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, I was.

Prosecution (Fein)

And you chose who can and cannot visit you?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. Well, to an extent. I did– I didn’t– I didn’t know– I didn’t always know if somebody was coming.

Pfc. Manning

So, if I wasted to change, you know, if I
wanted to– it was more for like refusal of eating or things like that– which
I never– I never– I never to my knowledge put that as a sworn statement that
I am refusing chow or anything like that, but that’s an example of one where it
would be use.

Or recreation call was another one, where
they– where if you flat out refuse recreation call, then they would ask you
to.– initially they would ask me to fill it out, and I did.

But, if I was not feeling well or if I just
didn’t feel like going outside or doing recreation call, then I would fill it
out without a problem.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so once you received advice of
counsel, not to fill out these forms, when it really wasn’t voluntary on your
part.

Pfc. Manning

Right.

There was a moment– I don’t recall when, it
was probably towards the December timeframe, whenever they started– they went
to these voluntary statements routinely and they– they kept on putting them in
front of me for times, whenever I wasn’t getting– cause there were days in
which they– I would not get rec call, and you know I would just miss it.

And, that happened before, you know in– I
don’t recall what day it was, and then, I mean, I would mention it, and then it
would be– I would get comp– I think I would get comp time– like if I had a
sunshine call one day, then I would– if I missed a sunshine call one day, then
I’d get a recreation or I’d get a sunshine call with thirty or forty minutes
the next day– because it’s sort of comp– cause it’s sort of comp time for
missing that.

And, that’s early on, but there was a certain
moment, where they started giving me these sworn– these voluntary statements,
and I don’t know.

But, it has a swearing word verbiage at the bottom,
that I wasn’t sure what the status of this document was. And, I was getting increasingly
concerned about having them– having them presented pretty easily, and what
they for.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. So, once I gave you that advice, did you ever have an exchange with
Chief Barnes, about whether or not you would be in trouble if you crossed out
or refused to fill out these forms?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. There was a– she’s said something that it’s against Navy Regulations to
cross out and initial portions that removed the voluntary language– I mean the voluntary language and the–
and, I don’t have the verbiage in front of me, but– I mean to basically cross
out and initial on the language that I was uncomfortable with.

And, the fact that I was not allowed to– she
also said that I was not– that I had to fill these out, that I was not allowed
to just flat out refuse to fill them out, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Pfc. Manning

Yes. We– I mean we looked at it from the vantage point we wanted– I mean I
wanted to get off of POI, and the best way to accomplish that legally was to
exhaust my administrative remedies.

And that was to go through each different step
in the process, and you know, reach that conclusion.

We figured we would get there, you know, about
a few– we would check on– we would check on a couple of these boxes in terms
of exhausting administrative remedies, eventually the POI restriction would be
lifted.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so before I advised you on filing a
complaint or doing anything.

Defense (Coombs)

And, I know it’s been a while, but do you
recall kind of what I was telling you was happening from, you know, I was able
to do for you?

Pfc. Manning

You emailed them. You emailed, I remember then
Captain Fein, now Major. Fein
responded back and said that he was going to look into it.

Defense (Coombs)

And, with regards to, I guess, the actions that
were being taken informally. When
did that come to a head, in your mind, where those steps were failing, and
you’d be more formal?

Pfc. Manning

I put in a 5-10 in December, and I have always
vocally said to the staff.

You know, I started asking questions. I got this discrepancy between– I
remember I got this discrepancy between what now Master Sergeant was saying and
what Captain Hocter was saying about why I was on POI status.

So now I know, [missed word] had no idea what
the justification was because medical health provider is saying one thing.

The counselor is saying another thing. And, I remember I put in a 5-10
regarding that to, I believe I directed it to Gunnery Sergeant Blenis– then
Gunnery Sergeant Blenis.

And, I never heard back on it. I never– I don’t know what happened to
that form in mid-December.

And, because we– nothing ever came up with
them, and I talked to you about the fact of [missed a word], and we decided to
go forward or I thought you meant, because I misunderstood, because I put in
another 5-10 to the commander.

I think you, as I found out earlier, that you
sent a memorandum detailing the exact same thing, but through the [missed word]
counsel.

From what you– from what you said, and what
from doing, you know, I think you had to do some paperwork on the 138– the
Article 138 process, and so I had that, but it was just– it was just for
general– it was that, we take a commander– it has to be a commander that
makes a decision and whether or not– and, I– and we have to believe that I
was wronged in them making that decision, but in some way, according to the
statute.

And then– and then we would bring that up to
the next highest– the next high level to the General, all the way up to
General Court Martial Convening Authority, and to the Service Secretary
eventually.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when I was explaining the process to you,
you got denied at every step of the way, all the way up to the Secretary of the
Navy in this instance.

And, I can see that they are uncomfortable with
what they see. And, I didn’t want
to bring that up.

They see that I have two Marines behind me, and
I didn’t want them to– I didn’t want them to have to experience– experience
much more of that. I didn’t want to
bring it up. It’s like the elephant
in the room, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

What were you concerned about from that?

Pfc. Manning

I was also concerned that– that they might end
my– they might secure my visits, and say that I did something wrong, because–
it was understood that you weren’t really suppose to talk about what’s going in
the facility.

I mean I don’t know if that’s the rule or
anything, but it was generally understood that it was probably not a good idea
to talk about the facility like, you know, like any specific details about it
to visitors first, for both security reasons, you know, and that the whole
process of everything, dates and times, and transport issues and things like
that.

I didn’t want to get into the– into the
details of, you know, because I figured that would be a very quick reason to
end those visitations for security reasons, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Now, why did you chose not to write a lot as far as sending out letters?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I didn’t have– I mean I was able to
visit family or I was able to have family visit. I got that backwards. I couldn’t leave, so I couldn’t visit
them, but.

So, because I was in that area, and most of
my– most of my family are in or were available to visit, I didn’t see as
necessary– I didn’t see it as being necessary to have to write a lot.

And then, I didn’t want to facility to–
because I– in the few time that I did write something, they would scrutinize
every single word, and ask me what I meant, and if I was trying to use code
words or something like that.

So, I was really– I was really uncomfortable
writing anything, because I knew the guards would go through it.

Defense (Coombs)

Another question caused me a little bit of
confusion, because Major Fein asked you about you saying, ‘How do I look? I am
wearing glasses again.’

Pfc. Manning

Defense (Coombs)

Okay, so when somebody copied everything–

Pfc. Manning

It was too– too late at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

–that became public then?

Pfc. Manning

Somebody was going to make– somebody was going
to make it public. And, it
eventually did.

I think there is a verbatim of everything,
including an entire copy of my friends list out there.

And, that was another thing. I didn’t want people that– to get
targeted for being associated with me in any way, shape, or form with me.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Now trial counsel also asked you some questions about fundraising. What was your concerns about
fundraising?

Pfc. Manning

I don’t know. I don’t recall exactly what I was
saying, but they’re doing most of the– I’m trying to keep it so they’re doing
most of the talking.

I don’t want– I’m not really involved in
fundraising or anything like that, sir.

I mean I know that– I know that you are
getting paid, that– that is an agreement that we have that you are getting
paid, sir, so.

I didn’t want, you know, I didn’t want any
[missed word] to really– I mean I saw this as being a, you know, a case– from
a case standpoint, I wanted this– I wanted a proper court-martial.

I didn’t want– the court of public opinion was
not where I wanted this, you know, to all take place.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever give me, as your counsel, any
guidance on going to the press?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. Limited. I gave you a lot actually. [laughs] I remember that I
didn’t want you to do much. If
you– I remember you– you had Mr. Fitzgibbon contact you or he contacted– I
don’t know how that went.

I tried– I tried to convey the fact that I was
stable, and that I was improving, you know, whenever I got there.

I mean in terms of being– I mean I don’t
know– I don’t know how objective they were– I mean I was– and that was why
that particular question came up because I wasn’t sure if that was what he
actually believed or if that he was just saying that to get press
attention. [missed a few words].

Defense (Coombs)

And, obviously, you would agree that Mr. House
and the other where just there trying to help you really?

Pfc. Manning

They– maybe– I didn’t know. I didn’t know for sure. I didn’t– that is why I limited my
association.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor. So, they announced, ‘Reveille Reveille
Reveille’ in the housing unit, then ‘Stand by for count.’

And, I don’t recall– I recall being confused
about that– about the rank in particular.

And, then I said– I tried to word the question
something to the effect of, ‘Excuse me, Lance Corporal,’ or ‘I’m not sure what
you are trying to ask.’

That was the gist of what I was trying to
ask. I don’t recall the exact
phrasing.

And, then the phrase– the statement was said
again. And, then I– I think I
asked. I recall asking, ‘Should I
put the blanket– Do you want me to put the blanket down?’ And then there being a, ‘Yes,’ or
something like that. So, I set the
blanket down and went to parade rest, your Honor.

Judge Lind

What happened after that?

Pfc. Manning

I mean, ‘I’m not really doing a whole lot.
There is not a lot going on,’ you know.

We talked. Then, we had some small talk on occasions. We used to talk about current events,
sports, [missed word] theory, but–

Judge Lind

Cause that is what is confusing me slightly too
is you testified yesterday that you were very extroverted person who wants to
be around people–

Pfc. Manning

Yes, I do.

Judge Lind

–then why didn’t you talk when you had the
opportunity to talk to him?

Pfc. Manning

Well, it’s a different– I mean, and I did talk
to him.

I felt that I was talking to him. You know, I
like to talk. I mean, I like to
talk [missed a few words] everything.

I get energy from– from being around people or
group of people, but it was just this sort of one on one conversation, and I
felt that we were– I felt that we were having kind of a decent
conversation.

Sometimes– Sometimes I just didn’t have a
whole lot to talk about or I was just out– out of energy from being bored all
day, and not really having a lot to do.

And, you know, we would talk about things that
were not necessarily that interesting to me. We didn’t have a lot of similar
interests, me and now Master Sergeant Blenis.

We didn’t have a– we had some– we had some
overlaps, in terms of college basketball, and things like that.

But, we didn’t have a lot of similar interests
on certain things, at things on what I could gather.

Judge Lind

When was the first time that you remember– You
testified earlier that you tried to handle this informally in the
beginning.

Did you ever talk to Gunnery Sergeant Blenis or
anybody else at the Brig about, ‘What can I do to make you all think that I am
stable and I’m not–?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, yes. Correct. Correct. I don’t know when I started.

I mean in the very beginning I wanted to convey
the fact that whenever I arrived at Quantico Base Brig in July 2010– I wanted
the staff to know that, you know, that I was fine.

I wanted to get off of the status, and I wanted
to find out how I could do that to [missed a few words].

Any follow up questions based on that?

Pfc. Manning

–Oh. I– there was the second.

Judge Lind

Oh, I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Pfc. Manning

Pfc. Manning

Of course, but I mean, I didn’t really have– I
think friend wise I would call Mr. Clark a friend, so yes, in that sense, Mr.
Clark in particular.

For many of my– for many– for many of the
people that I considered friends did not come with– to visit me, while I was
at Quantico Base Brig, sir.

Prosecution (Fein)

And so what about– and then, were you also
then worried about what the media consultants or the PR experts would think
when they came and visited you and you didn’t talk to them about it?

Pfc. Manning

I don’t really– I mean they– they were– they
were there.

I was more– I was more concerned about
having– having sort of– because I knew that they– no matter what they were
going to talk to whoever about whatever.

I mean they have– they have First Amendment
rights to do that.

So, they can speak to whoever and whatever,
and– but, I wanted them to– I
wanted them to– I wanted to hear from them, and see them personally.

I would say so, yes, from their
standpoint– I mean that’s why I
had– that’s why we arranged– why me and Mr. Coombs arranged for these blog
postings is because I wanted– that was the– we were really trying [to?] hold,
you know, the middle ground, and try to get just the facts–

As many facts as possible, and not, you know,
[missed a few words].

Prosecution (Fein)

So there was information from people who did
visit you being put out to the media that was false about your conditions?

Pfc. Manning

That I believe could be– that was not
necessarily accurate or that was portrayed in a slanted light. I’m a
fact– I am more of a scientific
person. I like things to be more factual, and as objective– I mean as–
There’s gonna be some subjectivity in this. That’s inevitable in the world, you
know.

In this [missed word] especially, you
know. To try to put as many
objective facts on the table as possible, and to counter a lot of the wildness,
is what I was particularly concerned about.

Prosecution (Fein)

Well, thank you. No further questions your Honor.

Judge Lind

Okay.

Defense (Coombs)

[Missed but in the negative], your Honor.

Judge Lind

Pfc. Manning please return to your chair.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, your Honor.