Transcript | US v Pfc. Manning, Witness Col. Daniel J. Choike, former Marine Corp Base Quantico Commander
- posted November 27, 2012
UPDATE POST COURT-MARTIAL
United States v. Pfc. Manning was conducted in de facto secrecy. The public was not granted contemporaneous access to court filings or rulings during her trial. In addition to reporting on her trial, I transcribed the proceedings, reconstructed the censored appellate list, and un-redacted any publicly available documentation, in order to foster public comprehension of her unprecedented trial.
As a result of a lawsuit against the military judge and the Military District of Washington brought by the Center for Constitutional Rights, as well as my own FOIA requests and research, an official court record for US v. Pfc. Manning was released seven months after her trial. That record is not complete.
The official trial docket is published HERE and the entire collection of documents is text searchable at usvmanning.org.
*During the pretrial proceedings, court-martial and sentencing of Pfc. Manning, Chelsea requested to be identified as Bradley and addressed using the male pronoun. In a letter embargoed for August 22, 2013 Chelsea proclaimed that she is female and wished to be addressed from that moment forward as Chelsea E. Manning.
See Transcript of US v Pfc. Manning, Article 39(a), 11/27/12
Col. Daniel J. Choike, former Marine Corp Base Quantico Commander
Defense (Coombs)
[You are] retired… Col. Choike can I refer to you as Col. Choike?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. Please do.
Defense (Coombs)
Current position?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Vice President], Critical Infrastructure Development at an IT firm.
Defense (Coombs)
[If you need me to repeat a question or need a comfort break, please let me know.]
Col. Daniel Choike
Okay.
Defense (Coombs)
Pfc. Manning arrived [at Quantico] on 29 July 2010?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Knew 48 hours prior to his arrival?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Found out from [Col. Robert] Oltman?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Oltman found out from CW5 [Abel] Galaviz?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
CW5 Galaviz [is the highest ranking officer in the Marine Corp for corrections] at Plans, Policies & Operations [PP&O]? [Galaviz found out from [missed] in charge of Policy and Operations?]
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[You called a] 27 or 28 of July [2010] staff meeting?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Day before you received Pfc. Manning?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You spoke with Col. [Royal P.] Mortenson [the MCCDC chief of staff]…? …Lt. Gen. Flynn knew…receiving?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You wanted to make sure all staff duties done properly?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Meeting was held in the conference room? Oltman was present. [Staff Judge Advocate] Lt. Col. [Christopher] Greer was present?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart [Quantico Brig Commander]?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Meeting to properly receive Pfc. Manning and CW4 Averhart [(CW4)] was not present?
Col. Daniel Choike
…different [armed services] public affairs coordinating, seriousness of the charges…all other things that would [missed].
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart?
Col. Daniel Choike
Thought you said CW5 Galaviz.
Defense (Coombs)
Was CW4 Averhart present for the meeting?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware of the charges?
Col. Daniel Choike
Not in detail.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware of the seriousness [of the charges]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware of the nature of the charges?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You were told suicide risk?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes [via] documents.
Defense (Coombs)
Substantial media coverage?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Colonel [Thomas V.] Johnson [Public Affairs Office] was present because of the substantial media coverage?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t remember if Col. Johnson [Public Affairs Office] was present… 1st Lt. Scott Villiard [Quantico Spokesperson], Chuck Jenks [Public Affairs Office]… Don’t remember Col. Johnson… later 1st Lt. Scott Villiard [Quantico spokesperson] then a civilian Chuck Jenks [Public Affairs Office].
Defense (Coombs)
That amount of media…attention from the public?
Col. Daniel Choike
Not sure I understand.
Defense (Coombs)
Attention from the public?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Primary duty, safety and security of the garrison?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Email from Lt. Gen. Flynn, CG [commanding general, Marine Corps Combat Development Command (MCCDC)] [missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Your direct supervisor?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Your reporting senior rater and senior commanding review officer…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Your reviewing officer and senior rater?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Unlike in the Army, Lt. Gen. Flynn represented both positions for you…senior rater and reporting senior?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Did Lt. Gen. Flynn have impact on your career?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. [Choike qualifies saying that he had 30 to 40 years and was now retired.]
Defense (Coombs)
Well, at the time?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
On 9 August Lt. Gen. Flynn emailed you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…and you emailed Col. Oltman [Security Battalion Commander] [with the email from Lt. Gen. Flynn]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
And, as Col. Oltman’s [Security battalion Commander] direct supervisor [who was himself] direct supervisor to CW4 Averhart [Quantico Brig Commander]– later CW2 Barnes [later Quantico Brig Commander]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Email was also addressed to Lt. Minor (sp.) SJA [Staff Judge Advocate]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…and Dennis [Mede? or Reede?] and Lt. Gen. George Flynn [deputy commandant for combat development and integration, and the MCCDC commanding genera]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Marked email high importance?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Appellate exhibit 418(a) memo email…any additional emails under appellate exhibit 418 (a), (b), (c), and (d).
Prosecution (Fein)
We need to review.
Defense (Coombs)
Bates number 449894.
Col. Choike [appellate exhibit 418(a)] you have in front of you so you don’t have to rely on memory. Do you recognize?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
How did Lt. Gen. Flynn mark the email?
Col. Daniel Choike
‘Importance High’
Defense (Coombs)
He wanted you to take notice of the email?
Col. Daniel Choike
Any email from Lt. Gen. Flynn [I would take notice of], but Lt. Gen. Flynn corresponded to me as important.
Defense (Coombs)
Because he is a three star general?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
The Brig had, had a suicide in 2010?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Gen. George Flynn tell you, ‘We have had one suicide of a high risk prisoner in the brig. We need to make sure that we have covered down on what we learned from that case…’
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. Not directly…wanted command, chaplains, medical staff…
Defense (Coombs)
We will get to that part. He wanted to ensure that lessons learned were applied to this case?
GOVERNMENT OBJECTION. LEADING.
Judge Lind
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Leading MRE 611(c)…clarifying…
Judge Lind
The witness’ answer is the answer.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Choike, I am not asking if you applied particular handling…’things you learned’. [Missed.]
Lt. Gen. George Flynn attaches a New York Times article?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘Based on the below [the New York Times story], this young man has a great deal on his plate and it would be good if you impressed upon all who come in contact with Private
Manning the absolute necessity of keeping a close watch on him.’
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Directly impressing the Brig, chaplain, transport? [From email: ‘This includes Brig, medical, Chaplain and transport personnel. His life has completely…’]
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Gen. Flynn thought Pfc. Manning was a suicide risk? [‘His life has completely fallen apart which makes him a strong candidate (from my perspective) to take his life.’]
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
From that reading, believed he was a suicide risk?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. At that point based on the article…can’t answer that…[regarding suicide risk] which is a classification term…
Defense (Coombs)
His being your direct supervisor, your thought was he was a suicide risk?
Col. Daniel Choike
Just the way he says it…
Defense (Coombs)
You sent an email back?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Measures are in place if he would be transported to Walter Reed?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You just phoned Captain Mary Neil [commanding officer of the Naval Health Clinic]…weekly updates?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Robert Oltman the Security Battalion Commander…weekly updates?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You would forward weekly reports [regarding Pfc. Manning] separate from weekly base updates [to Lt. Gen. George Flynn]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You cc’d Col. Royal P. Mortenson [the MCCDC chief of staff] for Lt. Gen. George Flynn, Col. Robert Oltman, Col. Mark Kauzlarich [Marine Corps Base Quantico] Chief of Staff and Captain Mary Neil [commanding officer of the Naval Health Clinic]? Sent Second update same day?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
They provided weekly updated from Brig staff and mental health?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Let’s talk about the weekly updates that you would [forward to Lt. Gen. George Flynn]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart and CW2 Barnes [would forward those weekly updates] to Col. Robert Oltman. Then Col. Oltman would forward to you, then you would consider and forward to Lt. Gen. Flynn?
Col. Daniel Choike
I never forwarded.
Defense (Coombs)
Your testimony [that you are giving now] is that you never forwarded…under oath?
Col. Daniel Choike
That is correct.
Defense (Coombs)
Do you recall your statement to me…? He didn’t want updates? Did you have phone conversations?
Col. Daniel Choike
I thought on 9 August, [but] he didn’t want details. He did not need or want weekly reports.
Defense (Coombs)
What did he say?
Col. Daniel Choike
He didn’t want details based on…didn’t want details, just wanted to know intent…wanted to [missed].
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(b).] Look at that email. Page three. See there where you tell Lt. Gen. George Flynn about David House and Jane Hamsher being denied [access]? Do you see on the same page that you emailed Lt. Gen. George Flynn that David House and Jane Hamsher…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you send more detailed…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
He responded to you within seven minutes…? [I noted ‘August to January 3’ but am not sure what that regards.]
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you see he responded within seven minutes?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[You had an email exchange regarding Pfc. Manning’s] cousin visting?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[You had an email exchange regarding] David House and Jane Hamsher visiting?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Spoke to PAO [Public Affairs Office] [missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate Exhibit 418(c)] See Colonel [Thomas V.] Johnson [Public Affairs Office]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes
Defense (Coombs)
Included you, the SJA [Staff Judge Advocate], and Lt. Gen. Flynn on the email?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Judge Lind
Am I going to get a copy?
Defense (Coombs)
Your Honor, I received a copy [missed]. You have a copy now.
Defense (Coombs)
Email included you, the Staf Judge Advocate, and Lt. Gen Flynn regarding Frontline Asking to interview CW2 Barnes, who wasn’t in the email [chain?]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. He was concerned about details with me.
Defense (Coombs)
Okay let’s try another one. [Appellate exhibit 418(d)]. Email asking to review a letter you were going to sign, correct?
Col. Daniel Choike
That is what course I recommend…I sign…
Defense (Coombs)
‘Take out the letter “a” before blankets in…paragraph…’? Are you still saying you never forwarded details to Lt. Gen Flynn?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. [Choike says that Flynn was interestes in the media concerning protests in August, September, January, and March. And I believe I noted that the information to was to prepare for different demonstrations.]
Defense (Coombs)
Are you still sending weekly updates?
Col. Daniel Choike
Correct. They were not consistent weekly updates.
Defense (Coombs)
So, you weren’t forwarding weekly updates from the Security Battalion Commander?
Col. Daniel Choike
That is correct.
Defense (Coombs)
And the reason why?
Col. Daniel Choike
Based upon my phone call [with Lt. Gen. George Flynn. So he is saying that lt. Gen. Flynn told him in a phone call not to forward details.]
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(e)] Email from you to Lt. Gen. Flynn that no one from the UN…and 43 individuals had contacted you that status should be changed. Why forward?
Col. Daniel Choike
Because [concerned?] UN review.
Defense (Coombs)
And that is why?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Why are you telling him about this detail?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t remember why, except that it came from Lt. Col. Greer [Staff Judge Advocate] and Col. Meyer (sp.) may have been corresponding. I don’t know why except…nothing indicated he required information.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(f)] Email from Colonel Thomas V. Johnson [Public Affairs Office] for Lt. Gen. Flynn to review the last media inquiry?
Col. Daniel Choike
Everyone was cc’d to let them know. Yes. Lt. Gen. Flynn had interest in anything that was coming from the media.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
Is that a question?
Defense (Coombs)
[Lt. Gen. Flynn had] no interest in CW4 Averhart or Barnes?
Col. Daniel Choike
If he had questions or other discussions, he would ask questions.
Defense (Coombs)
But never to where you attached reports? …Captain Mary Neil [commanding officer of the Naval Health Clinic]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. She would summarize…don’t know where she got the information from.
Defense (Coombs)
Captain Mary Neil is a dentist? [NB Captain Mary Neil is in the Navy Dental Corps]
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
She is not a forensic psychiatrist?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Why a dentist and not a forensic psychiatrist?
Col. Daniel Choike
She is the commanding officer [of the Naval Health Clinic].
Defense (Coombs)
Why dentist?
Col. Daniel Choike
Chain of command. I went to the commanding officer, who happened to be a dentist.
Defense (Coombs)
Weekly meeting regarding Pfc. Manning?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
In person?
Col. Daniel Choike
What do you mean?
Defense (Coombs)
Instead of on the phone?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
In one report she tells you Captain Hocter [missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart [Brig commander]…few months?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Understand what she meant?
Col. Daniel Choike
Only what was written. Concerns recent suicide and conditions…lack of information…lack of observation time…some of the things to make him anxious… [NB This is regarding Captain Hocter the forensic psychiatrist.]
Defense (Coombs)
Talk to Captain Neill?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Talk to CW4 Averhart?
Col. Daniel Choike
Not directly.
Defense (Coombs)
How did you [communicate to CW4 Averhart]?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Security Battalion Commander Col. Robert] Oltman is over CW4 Averhart.
Defense (Coombs)
No…how?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall. [Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(g)] Email we are talking about?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Forwarded to Lt. Gen. Flynn?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Along with…update?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Email…suicide…POI danger?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Recommended still on suicide, but recommendation was done?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Why?
Col. Daniel Choike
SOP [Standard Operating Procedure]. CW4 Averhart would take into account all the information…Classification & Assignment board…to make final call.
Defense (Coombs)
Because CW4 Averhart decided to take all the information into account?
Col. Daniel Choike
CW4 Averhart considered…
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart decided. Why do you believe that Captain Hocter agrees [with CW4 Averhart’s decision]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Captain Neil and I spoke…
Defense (Coombs)
You believe that Captain Hocter recommended not having clothes?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Do you know that Captain Hocter complained [that] Pfc. Manning was not given clothing?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
[Missed a question.]
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(h)] Know what this is?
Col. Daniel Choike
Captain Neill email to Captain Hocter.
Defense (Coombs)
See where she says that she will present Captain Hocter’s recommendation to you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
OBJECTION. OVERRULED.
Defense (Coombs)
See where she says she will present recommendation to you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
I know it’s been a long time. Do you recall?
Col. Daniel Choike
I don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
When you say that you don’t recall [do you mean you don’t recall] of that she didn’t [convey Captain Hocter’s recommendation]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
Ever recall Captain Hocter was upset clothes weren’t returned?
Col. Daniel Choike
That was never part of our conversation. His recommendation she related, not if he was upset.
Defense (Coombs)
Checking your testimony…
Col. Daniel Choike
I don’t recall…chances are we would have had discussion, but I don’t recall that specific meeting.
Defense (Coombs)
Actually, if we could go back to appellate exhibit] 418(g). In this email you state that one hour sunshine call…not completely clothes-less?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Why did you believe [that Pfc. Manning had one hour of sunshine call]?
Col. Daniel Choike
…based on information that I received from Col. Robert Oltman.
Defense (Coombs)
[If you knew that] all he was permitted was 20 minutes of sunshine call [NB which was the case until December 2010] would that surprise you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. Maybe he left after 20 minutes.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware of a lot of media interest?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Gen. Flynn was interested in media coverage?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…emails you and Col. Oltman on proposed response to media?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Sometimes provided input?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. Frequently.
Defense (Coombs)
…and, Lt. Gen. Flynn?
Col. Daniel Choike
…can’t give you that…Colonel Johnson [Public Affairs Office] worked directly for Flynn.
Defense (Coombs)
…any question [to Public Affairs Office]…Lt. Gen. Flynn provided input?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
…assessment of overall media coverage…break down if favorable to Quantico?
Col. Daniel Choike
…seen only a few.
Defense (Coombs)
…news media, even twitter and blog assessments… You were included and counsel for Department of Defense and Quantico?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes…don’t know above my chain.
Defense (Coombs)
Let’s go with what you were concerned with?
Col. Daniel Choike
…[whether] accurate…date, time…shot out and take a look at…[see if] proper and accurate.
Defense (Coombs)
Public Affairs Office and Lt. Gen. Flynn would see?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Colonel Johnson [Public Affairs Office] also drafted articles for publication?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Gen. Flynn, Col. Oltman, and others reviewed?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(i)] email chain [between] 27 to 30 December 2010 included you, Lt. Gen. Flynn, [Senior Executive Service (SES) Raymond F.] Geoffroy, [Jr.
Assistant Deputy Commandant (Security), Plans, Policies, and Operations Department], right? CW5 Abel Galaviz, CW4 Averhart, and Col. Robert Oltman?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. This did not originate with myself or Lt. Gen. Flynn. [Missed.] …several days later got Lt. Gen. Flynn input on.
Defense (Coombs)
I understand. …SJA [Staff Judge Advocate] to…commandant, high ranking in Marine Corp…to SES [Senior Executive Service] Raymond F. Geoffroy[, Jr. Assistant Deputy Commandant (Security), Plans, Policies, and Operations Department] second in rank for Marine Corps corrections and security. CW5 Galaviz reports to [SES Raymond F.] Geoffroy…you request CW5 Galaviz to conduct a review?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
27 December 2010, Major General Arri (sp)? Lt. Gen. Flynn not interested in Pfc. Manning’s treatment…although, Lt. Gen. Flynn [says] has consequences…[and to] hold the moral high ground in the press?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…wants to bring in outside team??
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Gen. Flynn says he is confident that the Quantico Brig is ‘doing everything right’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Concur…get ahead of ‘disinformation campaign’…to endorse care of Pfc. Manning?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…’just what I was looking for’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Then, LTC Troy Wright [Law Enforcement and Corrections, Plans, Policies] sends [to?] CW5 Galaviz…immediate supervisor?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
CW5 Galaviz included?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘…should make…a courtesy visit’
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…not official [visit], but do to [deal with the] attention?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…as many people as possible in accordance with regulation?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You say…our Inspector General [IG] Marine Major Timothy Zelek?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
After, you send report and Lt. Gen. Flynn…you will send him a copy as well?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You cc’d Col. [Shawn] Shumake [Director, Legal Policy at United States Department of Defense]…CW4 Averhart?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
So, CW4 Averhart…have benefit of emails?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘I know you have this handled…to make sure managed from my level?’
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Just want to say ‘by the book’? Give ‘my okay’?
Col. Daniel Choike
He never did.
Defense (Coombs)
But even at that point…response…’thanks…look forward to visit’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[SES Raymond F.] Geoffroy…stay ahead of ‘disinfo campaign’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Sent emails to Lt. Gen. Flynn?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(j)]. Go ahead and take a look. See where you sent email to Lt. Gen. Flynn?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Inspector General [IG] Marine Major Timothy Zelek conduct unannounced visit and report his review?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
..told as courtesy Col. [Shawn] Shumake [Director, Legal Policy at United States Department of Defense]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…more comprehensive guidance to put into media?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Retrieving appellate exhibit 418(j). Now in early January [2011] o light of Inspector General [IG] Marine Major Timothy Zelek… Col. [Shawn] Shumake [Director, Legal Policy at United States Department of Defense] probably not needed?
Col. Daniel Choike
I don’t remember if it was the same day…, but that I responded.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(k)] Take a look. Responded same day, correct?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…cc’d Col. Oltman and CW5 Galaviz?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…attach Inspector General [IG] Marine Major Timothy Zelek’s report?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…then told Lt. Col. Wright [Law Enforcement and Corrections, Plans, Policies, and Operations], and…told [SES Raymond F.] Geoffroy [Assistant Deputy Commandant (Security), Plans, Policies, and Operations Department], and ask LT. Col. Wright…encourage visit?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘Inform my boss Lt. Gen. Flynn…dual visit from Marine Corp…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…told youCol. [Shawn] Shumake [Director, Legal Policy at United States Department of Defense] as tentative?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Col. Wright [lets?] you [in?] on PR on upcoming visits…also ‘FYI Gen. Casey [Chief of Staff of the United States Army] and Gen. Amos [Commandant of the Marine Corps] have conversation about Pfc. Manning?’
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Gen. Casey was the Chief of Staff of the Army and Gen. Amos was the Commandant of the Marine Corp?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Why would Gen. Casey and Gen. Amos have a conversation about Pfc. Manning?
Col. Daniel Choike
I can’t answer that. Those are Lt. Col. Wright’s words.
Defense (Coombs)
I am asking…
Col. Daniel Choike
I don’t know.
Defense (Coombs)
…high level of scrutiny. Is something you discussed from before…
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…track the command from Lt. Gen. Flynn to Headquarters Marine Corp?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t know what you mean?
Defense (Coombs)
Your words. Lt. Gen. Flynn to the Secretary of the Navy and his staff?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(l)] oldest email in the chain, 3 January 2011, Mr. Carl E. Shelton Jr., Deputy Inspector General. Office of the Inspector General of the Marine Corps…email from Shelton to Gen. Amos cc’d Kenneth Lee, Inspector General [US Marine Corps]…and Gen. Dumford (sp.), [Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps; Gen. Amos, commandant of the Marine Corps,] the Commandant of the Marine Corp…email discussion about United Nations and Amnesty International interest [in Pfc. Manning treatment at Quantico]. General Casey [Chief of Staff of the Army]…Secretary of the Army direct inquiry into Pfc. Manning’s conditions. …’I know Lt. Gen. Flynn is paying particular attention to suicide’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Inspector General of the Marine Corp repsonds, includes Lt. Gen. Flynn?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘Army satisfied with quality of life of Pfc. Manning’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Sends entire email to you to close out, so US Army Inspector General would not come?
Col. Daniel Choike
I am not sure if this met Lt. Gen. Flynn’s intent.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(m)] discussed earliest…10 January 2011, CW5 Galaviz to CW4 Averhart to Security Battalion Commander Col. Oltman…[Mr. Greg] Strobel, [retired USMC warrant officer, now a civilian operations officer,] Army Corrections review.
[NB The Army Corrections Command is organized within the Army’s Office of the Provost Marshal General. The Provost Martial General is responsible for Army CID and the Army Corrections Command.]
Security Battalion Commander Col. Oltman tells you his reservations about an independent review, ‘will get that information and exploit in the press’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘CW5 Galaviz still coming by…’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Oltman says will share concern with CW5 Galaviz?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Oltman laters tells you he has no problem pushing off [Mr. Greg] Strobel, [retired USMC warrant officer, now a civilian operations officer,] Army Corrections?
Col. Daniel Choike
…can’t find [that in the email].
Defense (Coombs)
What page? I will read to you. ‘No problem. Easily done with email’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘armchair quarterbacks not welcome…SOP.’ [What did you] mean?
Col. Daniel Choike
Needed to have expertise.
Defense (Coombs)
[Mr. Greg] Strobel, [retired USMC warrant officer, now a civilian operations officer,] Army Corrections not qualified?
Col. Daniel Choike
I didn’t know his credentials.
Defense (Coombs)
…Article 138 complaint. After receiving you decided to require involvement?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
When did he get involved?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed].
Defense (Coombs)
…to [conduct an] independent [review] or reconfirm your…decision?
Col. Daniel Choike
Command directs what was in letter.
Defense (Coombs)
So, CW5 Galaviz would be independent or give seal of approval?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…even though his bosses already approved of Pfc. Manning’s treatment?
Col. Daniel Choike
He was expected to do his job.
Defense (Coombs)
…email from you to [missed] 7 February 2011?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
… CW5 Galaviz’ boss?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Why did you say, ‘assist us in the Article 138 process’? What did you mean?
Col. Daniel Choike
That he would do a review. …someone coming in, not part of the Brig staff.
Defense (Coombs)
CW5 Galaviz…’best guy’ for the investigation?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
See where Col. Mark Kauzlarich [Marine Corps Base Quantico] Chief of Staff writes, ‘wholeheartedly believes’ CW5 Galaviz is the ‘best guy for the job’?
Col. Daniel Choike
…brig corrections.
Defense (Coombs)
…already have approval ‘!’ with an exclamation point?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.] Based upon discussion. Chief of Staff, he assessed CW5 Galaviz.
Defense (Coombs)
Excited?
Col. Daniel Choike
In terms of the Chief of Staff being a step behind me. That task is complete.
Defense (Coombs)
CW5 Galaviz was involved from day one? He was involved in getting Pfc. Manning to Quantico?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
He was included on emails to bosses [who believed] Pfc. Manning was being treated fairly?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
He was included on emails of Gen. Amos [Commandant of the Marine Corps] and Major General Arri (sp)? that Quantico was ‘doing everything right’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Do you really think that [CW5 Galaviz] was really outside?
Col. Daniel Choike
…yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Why independent [if] included on emails from his bosses? In spite of Gen. Amos and Major General Arri (sp)?, and Lt. Gen. Flynn all signing off on Pfc. Manning’s treatment?
Col. Daniel Choike
I don’t think that would have impact…
Defense (Coombs)
[CW5 Galaviz] is not someone who is an ‘armchair quarterback’?
Col. Daniel Choike
COURT IN RECESS
COURT CALLED TO ORDER
Defense (Coombs)
19 January provided the Article 138 by defense?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you read?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
1 March 2011 response?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Drafted?
Col. Daniel Choike
SJA [Staff Judge Advocate] Lt. Col. Greer drafted it.
Defense (Coombs)
By this, you say that Staff Judge Advocate Lt. Col. Greer drafted it without your input?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
When?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
Read through it thoroughly to get the the final product?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes…verbiage in a few paragraphs…typing.
Defense (Coombs)
Wordsmith’ing?
Col. Daniel Choike
Can’t recall…looking in detail some of the information not completely accurate…
Defense (Coombs)
Can you give an example?
Col. Daniel Choike
Can’t without looking at document.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you independently investigate?
Col. Daniel Choike
Define. Reading reports from Col. Oltman, then, yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you ever talk to CW4 Averhart, Captain Hocter, or Col. Malone?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Why?
Col. Daniel Choike
Getting updates from Captain Neill…weekly updates.
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart? So, instead of speaking…wait for response?
Col. Daniel Choike
Response spoke for itself.
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart did not abuse discretion?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. …his authority to ensure safety. [Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Pfc. Manning ‘I’m in MAX POI [prevention of injury]…’?
Col. Daniel Choike
…from his response.
Defense (Coombs)
Why did you believe that MAX POI was appropriate?
Col. Daniel Choike
Based upon weekly updates.
Defense (Coombs)
Comment from Gunnery Sergeant Blenis and Staff Sergeant [missed]..?
Col. Daniel Choike
…interaction and with other.
Defense (Coombs)
Specific?
Col. Daniel Choike
Weekly reports contained process, their interaction and the C&A [Classification & Assignment] board process… CW4 Averhart…C&A process, and then [CW4 Averhart] makes decision.
Defense (Coombs)
What [reasons] did you have…[for keeping Pfc. Manning on] MAX and POI?
Col. Daniel Choike
His erratic behavior, initial classification, seriousness of the charges, SECNAV Instructions, behavior, poor judgement in past, poor family relations.
Defense (Coombs)
Erratic behavior?
Col. Daniel Choike
Playing peek a boo, licking bars, dancing, erratic dancing.
Defense (Coombs)
The dancing, the peek a boo, did Captain Hocter and Col. Malone look at those?
Col. Daniel Choike
Can only [missed]…
Defense (Coombs)
Done by boredom in his cell, six by eight feet, out of boredom to keep his mind [active?]?
Col. Daniel Choike
It’s possible.
Defense (Coombs)
When [did that occur]?
Col. Daniel Choike
November time frame.
Defense (Coombs)
[Did you know] if that [licking the bars] did in fact occur during sleep walking…?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
{Did you know] on medication caused sleepwalking?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
No context except ‘licking [bars’ from the guard]?
Col. Daniel Choike
No. C&A board…when we received him, document anywhere within happened in that time frame.
Defense (Coombs)
When?
Col. Daniel Choike
November [2010] regarding MAX custody…had to do with seriousness of the charges, behavior in Kuwait, suicide risk…agreed MAX custody, suicide prevention.
Defense (Coombs)
…two ways: stuff before and stuff that happend since arriving. …weekly reports you see no behavior?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Polite, respectful, courteous?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Adjusting well?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Recommend coming off of POI?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
So, what did you see then after all that [warranted] POI?
Col. Daniel Choike
Gunnery Sergeant Blenis conversation or lack. Him being depressed and withdrawn.
Defense (Coombs)
When?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Entire time…Gunnery Sergeant Blenis?
Col. Daniel Choike
Dips in his attitude.
Defense (Coombs)
Dips in someone not wanting to talk, anything else?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Not talk…reason POI approved?
Col. Daniel Choike
C&A board meets, discusses journals…process, advise CW5 Galaviz, what he feels assignment should be.
Defense (Coombs)
Is it odd behavior, not so talkative?
Col. Daniel Choike
Gunnery Sergeant Blenis in reports more frequent than not.
Defense (Coombs)
Anything else?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Before…aware came on suicide risk…doctor looked at him and you were listening to doctor?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
..[doctor] then recommended pulling off POI..not listening?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Weekly reports…say what documents regarding and were made up of guards and [missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
So, what? After getting recommendation [to take Pfc. Manning] off POI, asked CW4 Averhart not to remove?
Col. Daniel Choike
Looked at SECNAV Instructions…emailed to Lt. Gen. Flynn, did my own research and the Brig SOP [Standard Operating Procedures]…Brig OIC [Office in Charge] takes all the information and makes an assignment.
Defense (Coombs)
But, in the Article 138, you are being asked to review?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
What else did you look at to make your determination?
Col. Daniel Choike
CW4 Averhart’s report and CW5 Galaviz information.
Defense (Coombs)
In regards to MAX, under SECNAV Instructions, MAX [is for those prisoners who are] violent and dangerous?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Only a few on MAX?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Resource drain on the Brig?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Very violent, dangerous escape risk?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
29 July 2010…let’s go to December 2010, did Pfc. Manning ever try to escape?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Assault anyone…?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Talk about disruptive?
Col. Daniel Choike
[He mentions 18 January 2010 incident but says] No. MAX appropriate…seriousness of the charges, past behavior, poor judgement of what was associated with charges, family relations.
Defense (Coombs)
Seriousness of the charges?
Col. Daniel Choike
SECNAV Instructions says one of the criteria.
Defense (Coombs)
Family relations?
Col. Daniel Choike
Also SECNAV…
Defense (Coombs)
What is that?
Col. Daniel Choike
Information present…and time receiving.
Defense (Coombs)
What were the other two?
Col. Daniel Choike
Displaying poor judgement, and poor judgement associated with the charges.
Defense (Coombs)
…not within confinement?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Some people have poor family relations?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…Kuwait…but he can’t do anything about his past?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you inform Lt. Gen. Flynn about the Article 138?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
What did he say?
Col. Daniel Choike
Nothing specific… [Staff Judge Advocate] Lt. Col. Greer talked to frequently…Lt. Minor? (sp.)…no personal conversation.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(o)] [SES Raymond F.] Geoffroy… 21 January 2011 email ‘as discussed’ see that?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Know what you discussed?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
Look down below.
Col. Daniel Choike
Can’t find connection…Major General Arri (sp)? to Lt. Gen. Flynn and lawyers, and Lt. Minor? (sp.)?
Defense (Coombs)
Do you know why Major General Arri (sp)? talks to Lt. Gen. Flynn about the Article 138?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you know that Major General Arri (sp)? got a copy of the Article 138 from the Staff Judge Advocate…Lt Gen. Dana Kyle Chipman [Judge Advocate General of the United States Army] to Major General Arri (sp)??
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Any discussion between you and Lt. Gen. Flynn about the email?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Any discussion with [Staff Judge Advocate] Lt. Col. Greer?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
About this?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Col. Greer is your SJA [Staff Judge Advocate]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Don’t recall…with Lt. Col. Greer and [SES Raymond F. ] Geoffroy[, Jr.]
[Assistant Deputy Commandant (Security), Plans, Policies, and Operations Department]
Col. Daniel Choike
Not sure why Lt Gen. [Dana Kyle] Chipman [Judge Advocate General of the United States Army] would email…except for information sharing…this email…brought in the loop…why Major General Arri (sp)? would talk to [SES Raymond F. ] Geoffroy[, Jr.] or Lt. Gen Flynn.
Defense (Coombs)
Are you saying you don’t recall because it’s been a long time?
Col. Daniel Choike
That email chain doesn’t make sense because of the flow.
Defense (Coombs)
At the time would have made sense?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart…over Captain Hocter [recommendation to remove from] suicide risk>
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Doing that…had authority to do so?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Even now as you sit, you still think appropriate?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
SECNAV 1640.9C [quotes from SECNAV]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You…’shall be’ done that does not mean immediately?
Col. Daniel Choike
‘Shall be’ done is not immediately. [This part is dealing with the medical officer removing a prisoner from suicide risk, and regulations as to what the Brig OIC shall do as a result.]
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
No interpretations…C&A board to get information from his board to make a determination.
Defense (Coombs)
CW5 Galaviz said that ‘shall be’ means ‘immediately’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
CW5 Galaviz said that CW4 Averhart violated the SECNAV?
Col. Daniel Choike
He was following not only the SECNAV.
Defense (Coombs)
You are not answering [my question] Chief Galaviz concluded [CW4 Averhart violated the SECNAV by not removing Pfc. Manning immediately from suicide risk when the medical doctors said he was not suicidal]. You disagree with CW5 Galaviz?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Still believe that CW4 Averhart did nothing wrong?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Additional charges same day that SJA [Staff Judge Advocate] Lt. Col. Greer informed you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You felt that you did not have sufficient notice?
Col. Daniel Choike
Appropriate medical and Brig [missed, essentially personnel].
Defense (Coombs)
You were also aware [of the] Article 138. You knew [missed] relief connect…Article 138 would notify, would be day [additional charges were referred?] ?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
MAX and POI?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Sent email, and new charges, and Article 138?
Col. Daniel Choike
Who wrote?
Defense (Coombs)
You?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(p)] Bottom…see ‘new charges and Article 138 would cause Marines to be in heightened state of awareness’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Remove underwear?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘I can wear them in a box. I can wear them with a fox. I can wear them in the day. I can wear them so I say. But I can’t wear them at night. My comments gave the staff a fright…’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Joke about?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘This may become a media issue, because Pfc. Manning may bring it up with his attorney’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Wanted Col. Malone present when Pfc. Manning found out about the charges?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.] …get him down? [In other words the Brig was trying to track him down.]
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Malone schedule [meeting with Pfc. Manning on March 4 2011]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Day charges were preferred?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Why on March 5…seriousness of the charges, life or death, MAX punishment?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Believe Col. Malone was a problem?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Because not sufficient advance notice of the charges?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Talking about an email from Lt. Gen. Flynn] Sent a copy of a New York Times [article about Pfc. Maning being] required to stand outside naked?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Malone sees Pfc. Manning on that day?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Gen. Flynn [writes] it would be good to have leadership [know about it before] reading it in the early bird?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Early bird is a synopsis [of news stories]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Commander uses [early bird] to see news? Lt. Gen. Flynn first account?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Wanted to hear] from chain before reading in newspaper.
Defense (Coombs)
Concerned about being able to answer people’s questions?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Later received update on medical support services…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
March 4 [2011]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Staff Judge Advocate] Lt. Col. Greer says Col. Malone, ‘No cause for urgency or emergency’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
He informed Captain Neill that he was not concerned?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Captain Neill was not satisfied with Col. Malone’s response?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Urgency?
Col. Daniel Choike
…[missed, essentially wanted] Col. Malone to see Pfc. Manning.
Defense (Coombs)
…visibility of this case?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
You said Col. Malone had not been at Brig?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Coffman, the Special Convening Authority, did not return your phone call?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Captain Neill…[missed] Army medical and Walter Reed?
Col. Daniel Choike
I could not make call.
Defense (Coombs)
‘If we could not [locate] psychiatrist to provide health care, Walter Reed would…be psych ward?’
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Email Lt. Gen. Flynn, when Col. Malone [missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
To be honest, [missed]. Not privy to conversations [regarding] medication.
Defense (Coombs)
You didn’t understand what was meant ‘statement related to outburst’?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed].
Defense (Coombs)
Told Lt. Gen. Flynn [missed] comments concerning…? [NB This is in regards to the ‘underwear comment’ to Master Sergeant Papakie]
Col. Daniel Choike
Because words of how to commit suicide…to use waistband of his underwear or flip flops.
Defense (Coombs)
[Aware] Master Sergeant Papakie [was speaking to Pfc. Manning about] why on MAX POI, ‘If I wanted to hurt myself…’ was what he was saying?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware said that ‘general conversation’?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware Master Sergeant Papakie wasn’t alarmed; you didn’t hear my question; were you informed that he did not indicate…[Pfc. Manning was] not upset?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you talk to Master Sergeant Papakie or CW2 Barnes?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Oltman?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. [Missed.] Describing [missed, but essentially what was] reported…he informed and contacted Gunnery Sergeant Blenis and CW2 Barnes and…information, actions, conduct that lead up to the discussion.
Defense (Coombs)
Heard only from Col. Oltman?
Col. Daniel Choike
Col. Oltman filled in.
Defense (Coombs)
Where did he get his information?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
He [Col. Oltman] had oversight of Brig?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You believe he was also concerned?
Col. Daniel Choike
I don’t have any [missed] of…[missed].
Defense (Coombs)
Aware Col. Malone [attributed the ‘underwear comment’] to Pfc. Manning intellectualizing POI conditions?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware of [it was a] statement [concerning the] absurdity of the conditions?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
…24/7 being apart of…and…and after the fact…[if you would have known that] a subject matter expert [NB Coombs is referring to the forensic psychiatrist Col. Malone said comment] not an attempt to harm himself…to intellectualize the absurdity…would it have made much difference [in your understanding]?
Col. Daniel Choike
No. Decision with CW2 Barnes.
Defense (Coombs)
But you are review?
Col. Daniel Choike
…taken into account. [Choike is saying here that the medical professional’s opinion was taken into account in CW2 Barnes’ decision.]
Defense (Coombs)
Whose observation and where [was] Col. Malone was in this whole process…you [missed word] Pfc. Manning removed from meds for anti-anxiety? You were aware he was removed?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. May have heard in update.
Defense (Coombs)
You said his [handeling instructions]…decision will reamin the same?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
As base commander…[do you have the] authority?
Col. Daniel Choike
I don’t believe I have the authority, maybe it is written. I was responsible, but not having the authority to make the case. Overall responsibility but to make decision over…
Defense (Coombs)
You could not say to the Brig OIC…?
Col. Daniel Choike
If it was something egregious.
Defense (Coombs)
Chaining [a prisoner] naked to a radiator? [Coombs is giving examples to understand the boundaries of Choike’s understanding about his own statement about his own authority over the Brig OIC]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
So, you have the authority?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
From 3 March to April…[missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Condition did not change.
Defense (Coombs)
Naked outside…[not allowed] blanket or smock to cover himself and he chose not to cover himself?
Col. Daniel Choike
Walk me through that.
Defense (Coombs)
Blankets…standing naked and…this witness had…
OBJECTION
Defense (Coombs)
Why would the DBS [Duty Brig Supervisor] at that point [not] correct [Pfc. Manning. Coombs here is fleshing out the assertion that Pfc. Manning purposely stood naked at attention, and why did the Duty Brig Supervisor doing count not correct him then if that was the case, given that the Brig corrected every infraction?]
Col. Daniel Choike
Only speculation, he had other duties. That this individual detraction…not anything causing harm. He [Pfc. Manning] had not done any other time. Why not correct? He probably had other duties…something Pfc. Manning chose to do told by Col. Oltman, CW2 Barnes, and staff.
Defense (Coombs)
What did they tell you?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed] articles and smock.
Defense (Coombs)
Do you know smock not given until 7 March?
Col. Daniel Choike
…might be mistaken.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you know naked in front of his cell?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you know he was told to put the blanket down?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
What choice does he have…were you told he was told to put blanket down?
Col. Daniel Choike
He had [option].
Defense (Coombs)
Do you know why he is saying, ‘told certain facts’?
Judge Lind
…and you are assuming to be true…that is not a fact he is aware of.
Defense (Coombs)
Would you agree he was told to be [missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Was decision to remove underwear, briefed to you>
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
What did…tell you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Based upon comment to Master Sergeant Papakie, to Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, to CW2 Barnes that she thought statement serious.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you concur?
Col. Daniel Choike
No concurrence issue. I did nothing to change it.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Gen. Flynn was briefed on decision to remove underwear?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Do you remember [if he concurred?] he made no opinion?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
Do you recall if he said anything to you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
Is that because been so long?
Col. Daniel Choike
Just don’t recall.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(q)]
OBJECTION. ‘THIS IS AN EMAIL CHOIKE NOT EVEN ON.’
Defense (Coombs)
Here. Is a line of appellate exhibit 418(q). Lt. Col. Wright [Law Enforcement and Corrections, Plans, Policies] to Col. Oltman regarding the removal of underwear at night.
Col. Daniel Choike
Not till now.
Defense (Coombs)
So, Col. Oltman stated wanted to pas on opinion from PSL Law Enforcement & Corrections [Marines Headquarters]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Col. Oltman did speak to me.
Defense (Coombs)
Take measures but not place in suicide risk…understand another actions in Article 138? You said Col. Oltman shared this fact?
Col. Daniel Choike
We discussed.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Col. Wright [Law Enforcement and Corrections, Plans, Policies] said removal of underwear and not placing Pfc. Manning on suicide risk was not proper?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Did Col. Oltman say Lt. Col. Wright Lt. Col. Wright [Law Enforcement and Corrections, Plans, Policies], a subject matter in Marines Corrections [missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
He had. She [CW2 Barnes] told him hard to justify Pfc. Manning’s status…that is the first time seeing it [the email].
Defense (Coombs)
10 March 2011 email, Col. Oltman to his Executive Officer…’any changes must be approved’ by you? 10 March?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(r)] second page…Col. Oltman initial response?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
First page…you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘CW2 Barnes is not acting alone and unafraid in her decision process with regard to status and or handling instruction changes with regard to Manning.’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart always concurred?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[You concurred?]…with CW4 Averhart?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘every decision and every change and to date I have concurred with all..Also every change has been discussed with the Boss’? That meant you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…best to pass on ‘personally’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
From Lt. Gen. Flynn?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Two lengthy meetings?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘You and I supporting/concurring with the…decisions that
change handling instructions or assignment status, without passing that info…no longer acceptable’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Did CW2 Barnes understand Lt. Col. Flynn to be briefed prior to any change for Pfc. Manning?
Col. Daniel Choike
She did not. I personally called CW2 Barnes. She felt I talked to her…events in media, the General [Lt. Col. George Flynn] reading in early bird, priority to be briefed, so that he was at least being notified.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.] Did CW2 Barnes understand…to change ‘consideration’?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
MCCDC commanding general just wanted to know about it?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Really? Did you actually mean ‘recommendation’? You meant consideration?
Col. Daniel Choike
I am only responding to what he wrote.
Defense (Coombs)
That is not what it says.
Col. Daniel Choike
No, but the summary paragraph is what I meant.
Defense (Coombs)
You expect us to believe that?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Why are you going to document non concurrence?
Col. Daniel Choike
Lt. Gen. Flynn never once influenced anyone.
Defense (Coombs)
Why did you [missed] in there if MCCDC commanding general ‘rejects/modifies’..?
Col. Daniel Choike
Because he wasn’t going to place himself…to do anything.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
Because he had trust and confidence we are not going to put him in that position.
Defense (Coombs)
Why say I had to ‘pass these on’ to here…’we are not going to do anything,’ how does that marry up with what…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Lt. Gen. Flynn was not happy of being notified with the press.
Defense (Coombs)
Let’s go line by line.
Col. Daniel Choike
You have to go back outside and take into account 2 March CW2 Barnes decision to remove his underwear.
Defense (Coombs)
‘Recommendations forwarded to me for discussion and concurrence’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘Before implementation’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes, ‘forward’ onto…
Defense (Coombs)
How would you interpret ‘number two,’ ‘recommendations forwarded to me for discussion and concurrence and then recommendation forwarded to Lt. Col. Flynn before implementation’?
Col. Daniel Choike
For him to just know about it.
Defense (Coombs)
Document decisions ‘determine political impact, media interest, legal ramifications,
and senior leadership reactions…’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Informing Lt. Gen. [Flynn] with decisions…[missed].
Defense (Coombs)
CG [Commanding General Lt. Gen. Flynn] wants ‘political’. Why?
Col. Daniel Choike
He did not want to be in react mode.
Defense (Coombs)
What was the political impact?
Col. Daniel Choike
Those are just comments I made…from Congress, from the UN.
Defense (Coombs)
What is ‘media’?
Col. Daniel Choike
How is it going to be covered…
Defense (Coombs)
‘Legal’?
Col. Daniel Choike
I can’t recall why I put that.
Defense (Coombs)
Last…[‘senior leadership reactions’]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Just their interest. He wanted to be in the loop in case there were…into those categories.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Oltman to you? ‘make a recommendation/request to implement the change. Should there be non concurrence and different guidance given we would like to have it in writing in order to annotate in the file. We can set up whatever paperwork is required. We are on board just want to ensure the files are properly documented’?
Col. Daniel Choike
…frustration chain was cut. I had to convey to him…
Defense (Coombs)
Why not just say CG [Commanding General Lt. Gen. Flynn] is not going to…?
Col. Daniel Choike
That is what I was trying to say.
Defense (Coombs)
But it also says, we’re not going to do anything without the CG [Commanding General Lt. Gen. Flynn]?
Col. Daniel Choike
That is right. That is what it says.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(s)] 14 March 2011 ‘dedicated mental heath at the Brig’ full time?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. Been long time. Because length of time…felt someone should be full time mental…
Defense (Coombs)
Why looking to get full time?
Col. Daniel Choike
Not clear we were going to [missed] a lot of discussion and…going from ‘Level 1’ facility to Pretrial confinement…that process underway, so discussion for the [missed] for the Brig. The Naval Health Clinic, I don’t own it. Captain Hocter…was lucky he was there, but short term detail…length [of confinement] required someone dedicated as part of the staff.
Defense (Coombs)
Why fall time [period]?
Col. Daniel Choike
That is what I just explained.
Defense (Coombs)
For benefit of?
Col. Daniel Choike
For his.
Defense (Coombs)
Brig psychiatrists?
Col. Daniel Choike
Captain Hocter or Col. Malone.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you trust the opinion of Captain Hocter?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Trust Col. Malone?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
[Missed a question.]
Defense (Coombs)
Do you recall [the Brig] having concern about Captain Hocter?
Col. Daniel Choike
Captain Hocter [had a patient at the Brig] who committed suicide.
Defense (Coombs)
So, help us understand. When you say concern…?
Col. Daniel Choike
About his [lack of] communication with staff. Captain Hocter had other duties and responsibilities, similarly when Captain Webb [committed suicide year previous] was being detained.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
We never discussed.
Defense (Coombs)
CW4 Averhart did not trust Captain Hocter?
Col. Daniel Choike
Never used [the word] ‘trust’.
Defense (Coombs)
When?
Col. Daniel Choike
At initial meeting.
Defense (Coombs)
Said ‘concern’ and stopped there?
Col. Daniel Choike
Captain Hocter and Col. Malone…amount of time dedicated to staff.
Defense (Coombs)
You concern not spending enough time?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Meaning Captain Hocter and Col. Malone have more time to see everything the staff is seeing?
Col. Daniel Choike
He wasn’t being detained a long time [meaning the understanding was Pfc. Manning wasn’t going to be held at Quantico for a long time]… Col. Malone brought in…not directly [missed] for staff…not [missed] for long term [missed].
Defense (Coombs)
Looking for this eight months in?
Col. Daniel Choike
Started at [missed]…because Captain Neill sent me weekly reports. As time went by…as amount of time no [missed] as trial counsel felt…then we have one there if we were to detain until trial.
Defense (Coombs)
Convey to [missed] Captain Hocter?
Col. Daniel Choike
Two times per week adequate…
Defense (Coombs)
Saw him two times per week? [referring to visits by psychiatrist to Pfc. Manning]
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Are you aware that [forensic psychiatrist] said once a week all that was necessary?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You said you spoke to Col. Malone?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. Not someone dedicated full time to Brig.
Defense (Coombs)
Col. Malone had a history with Pfc. Manning?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Had saw occasionally?
Col. Daniel Choike
I requested…one of the [missed] one or two times per week.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
How was Lt. Gen. Flynn involved?
Col. Daniel Choike
As commanding general what kind of support needed. Captain Neill went to her [missed] to [missed] final [missed] processed request. …full time… He said he would sign. [Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Captain Neill pushing on behalf of the command?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Two tracks. Lt. Gen Flynn required 1.) Full time to [missed] be on staff [for] Pfc. Manning. 2.) Consult…check opinions..?
Col. Daniel Choike
Not to second guess.
Defense (Coombs)
In order to give second opinion>
Col. Daniel Choike
No, not a second opinion. Was to get a full time…
Defense (Coombs)
Ever get one?
Col. Daniel Choike
…by the time Pfc. Manning left…base review cost out keeping the Brig [NB the Quantico Brig was torn down at the end of the year 2011]. [Missed.]
COURT IN RECESS
COURT CALLED TO ORDER
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(t)] March [2011] had Assistant Secretary of Defense [for Homeland Defense and Americas’ Security Affairs] Paul N. Stockton to evaluate the Quantico Brig?
Col. Daniel Choike
Had to do with what was taking place…detainees from GTMO…looking for detention to United States and Quantico Brig on the list for [Mr.] Stockton to look at.
Defense (Coombs)
See where he made visit just to do evaluation?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
‘Not inspecting to do anything about Pfc. Manning’?
Col. Daniel Choike
That is correct.
Defense (Coombs)
How would you notify Lt. Gen. Flynn for requests for high level visits?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. [Explains] Lt. Gen. Flynn staff did that.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(u)] Here’s situation went directly to [missed] to Lt. Gen. Flynn?
Col. Daniel Choike
‘Had SJA summarize for your [essay?]’
Defense (Coombs)
Notify Juan Mendez…UN and Rep. Kucinich?
Col. Daniel Choike
Summary of information to be [missed]/
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Gen. Flynn said already working issue? ‘Earlier we get others involved’?
Col. Daniel Choike
‘No seams exploited’.
Defense (Coombs)
Did you know Lt. Gen. Flynn met with Lt Gen. [Dana Kyle] Chipman [Judge Advocate General of the United States Army] about ‘seams’?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(v)]. See in there Lt. Gen. Flynn to Lieutenant General Dana Kyle Chipman [Judge Advocate General of the United States Army]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes, Col. [sounds like ‘Ures’] to Lt. Minor? (sp.).
Defense (Coombs)
Underwear…Article 138…Congressman?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Did Lt. Gen. Flynn talk with you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘One Marine Corps holding bay’? See that.
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
What did your SJA [Staff Judge Advocate]…he mean by that?
Judge Lind
Answer what you know.
Col. Daniel Choike
I believe to get higher Headquarters and senior level…not coming [to us]. Headquarters Marine Corps not us at MCBQ [Marine Corp Base Quantico] at tactical level not our responsibility. Is this what you mean now then? Headquarters had to place themselves at front…
Defense (Coombs)
[Appellate exhibit 418(w)] 14 January 2011. [Staff Judge Advocate] Lt. Col. Greer after meeting with Col. Oltman…email to SJA [Staff Judge Advocate] MDW [Military District of Washington] and trial counsel in case?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Says Captain Hocter expressed concern not justified from medical standpoint?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
‘Stand by for heavy rolls if the [missed] decides to request the [missed] to review and consider removing Manning’s POI status,’ tells SJA. ‘We are continuously reviewing that status. Unless you want to run our Brig. I think you undercut your own legal position if
you actually recommend that the POI status be removed. We are the jailers, either you trust us or you don’t. if you don’t, then move him.’
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
This was consistent with Lt. Col. Greer [Staff Judge Advocate] phone call earlier in the day…[SJA (Staff Judge Advocate)] [MDW? (Military District of Washington)?]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Lt. Col. Greer, ‘I made it clear to them [Army Trial Counsel] again that we have the day to day responsibility for Manning and if they are unhappy with Manning current status, then someone in the Army needs to take custody of him or relive us of the responsibility of his welfare…I reiterated our concern that if something goes wrong, there is not a single Army person that would be held responsible or found to be accountable as long as he stays with us’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Was this your concern?
Col. Daniel Choike
This is what I meant about people in the Brig.
Defense (Coombs)
But no one on the Army?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
You were not concerned?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
Were you concerned that if something happened to Pfc. Manning, the Marine Corps would be left holding the bag?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. We would be responsible.
Defense (Coombs)
Despite this Col. Coffman [Special Convening Authority] did request you to review Pfc. Manning’s POI status?
Col. Daniel Choike
The date?
Defense (Coombs)
I can refresh your memory. [Appellate exhibit 418(x)] Now, you were informed by [missed] ‘We carefully review POI…’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
What did you interpret that to mean, ‘The good news is that this is…’? When Lt. Col. Greer [Staff Judge Advocate] ‘carefully review POI’ did he tell you..?
Col. Daniel Choike
‘I wanted to get this to you ASAP.’ Would get marked up that he spent appropriate amount of time…
Defense (Coombs)
Was he talking about reviewing POI…did you now why Col. Coffman…?
Col. Daniel Choike
‘Good news’ was ‘ASAP’ and he took an appropriate amount of time to draft it.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
You were taken aback by the letter [from Col. Coffman]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
That he should have called [you personally] before writing the letter?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
You reached out to him?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes, regarding Col. Malone, in March [2011].
Defense (Coombs)
You told him quick response, but your intent was curt?
Col. Daniel Choike
It was curt because he was asking us to do the obvious.
Defense (Coombs)
You told Col. Coffman…you should have just talked to me…instead of the letter?
Col. Daniel Choike
It was challeng[ing?], but we made it work.
Defense (Coombs)
So, essentially, ‘You are telling us to do the obvious. It’s done’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
END OF DEFENSE EXAMINATION OF COL. CHOIKE
RECESS CALLED
COURT CALLED TO ORDER
PROSECUTION CROSS-EXAMINES COL. CHOIKE
Prosecution (Fein)
Explain structure at [Marine Corps Base Quantico]?
Col. Daniel Choike
History. Training and education since 1917. Deputy Commander. Lt. Gen. Flynn combat, development, and integration…Title 10…done at Quantico…live fire, Marine Corps Embassy Security Group, Marine Corps Combat Development Command, intelligence [missed].
Any day 25,000 to 30,000 people, contractors, Marines, other service members and families. That is…base.
Prosecution (Fein)
You have 37 different functions?
Col. Daniel Choike
All breaks [down] different functions…capital assets, water, sewer, all compliance…[missed, he goes on]…where we train 2nd Lieutenants and Marine Corp for…NCO [Non Commissioned Officers].
Prosecution (Fein)
[Under your command] two subordinate Battalions?
Col. Daniel Choike
Quantico tenant activity with general officers without convening authority…under MCBQ Headquarters over [missed number] of Marines…O-6 Colonel commander. Col. Oltman has all law enforcement personnel and Brig.
Prosecution (Fein)
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
Brig OIC to Col. Oltman.
Prosecution (Fein)
Second level senior…General Convening Authority [GCMCA] to Brig…GCMCA for installation?
Col. Daniel Choike
Lt. Gen. Flynn to…authority, and defer down to me enlisted.
Prosecution (Fein)
For Marines?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes, Marines.
Prosecution (Fein)
You are the commander of the Brig…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Didn’t own medical, chaplain…provided by Department of the Navy. [Naval Health Clinic] is a supporting organization.
Prosecution (Fein)
Captain Neill is commanding officer of the Navy Health Clinic at Quantico?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Prosecution (Fein)
Any authority over medical personnel?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Prosecution (Fein)
Who was her commander?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.] Navy Hospital, DC.
Prosecution (Fein)
Were you…[TOE – Table of Organization and Equipment?]…explain where Lt. Gen. Flynn…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Senior general officer resides aboard Quantico…command as base command. O-6 serves as installation commander. I would report to the senior commander [in this case Lt. Gen. Flynn].
Prosecution (Fein)
How often were you involved in Brig operations?
Col. Daniel Choike
I was not. Internally, I was not.
Prosecution (Fein)
Did receive weekly to company level…?
Col. Daniel Choike
I was not…
Prosecution (Fein)
Lt. Gen. Flynn…?
Col. Daniel Choike
He was not.
Prosecution (Fein)
Never or..?
Col. Daniel Choike
Cases brought to his attention. Captain Webb’s suicide of officer that closed that investigation.
Prosecution (Fein)
How involved [was Lt. Gen. Flynn] with internal operations of Brig?
Col. Daniel Choike
He was not.
Prosecution (Fein)
High level based off of media?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Prosecution (Fein)
Was it driven from information from the Brig?
Col. Daniel Choike
No. Info was hitting media caught Lt. Gen. Flynn…he would notify me if he learned something via media he should have been briefed on.
Prosecution (Fein)
Did you read weekly reports?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Prosecution (Fein)
Licking bars, lifting [imaginary] weights?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Prosecution (Fein)
‘Always planning, never acting’
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Prosecution (Fein)
Periods of time did not interact…crying behind exercise machine?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Prosecution (Fein)
Never went down [to Brig to] visit?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Prosecution (Fein)
When?
Col. Daniel Choike
Two occasions. Went to lunch area before and tour of Brig, because I didn’t ever know how they were confined.
Prosecution (Fein)
Sub… [missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Col. Oltman.
Prosecution (Fein)
Did he visit?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed]
Prosecution (Fein)
[You had] 48 hours [prior to Pfc. Manning arrival you were notified]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Information that came from CW5 Galaviz using term ‘WikiLeaks’ and using term ‘Pfc. Manning’.
Prosecution (Fein)
After that…what actions [did you take]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Held OPT [operational planning team] command relationships…a soldier at Marine installation…chain of command issues, public affairs, medical issues, and trial…what was [missed].
Prosecution (Fein)
How did you…[subordinate?] O-6 Brig, two levels down…your role?
Col. Daniel Choike
Support effective and [missed] and long terms detainment.
Prosecution (Fein)
Your role was to support their role?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Prosecution (Fein)
[Missed.] Did all questions get filtered by your command?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Prosecution (Fein)
…but for testimony…over five hours…OSD [Office of the Secretary of Defense?] to Lt. Gen. Flynn to insulate the Brig from that…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. So, they could do their job.
Prosecution (Fein)
How does that apply to protests…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Col. Oltman… …not included in planning…did not involve any people who ran Brig…[missed].
Prosecution (Fein)
[Missed.] Earlier you [were informed how]…2 and 3 March [2011] additional charges…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Email.
Prosecution (Fein)
[This line of questions concerns why the Brig was ‘looking’ for Col. Malone.] Why?
Col. Daniel Choike
Because needed to be able to provide care.
Prosecution (Fein)
You know that…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Well actually I do know that.
Prosecution (Fein)
I told you last night?
Col. Daniel Choike
I did not know.
Prosecution (Fein)
That the Brig knew about the charges?
Col. Daniel Choike
I did not know that.
Prosecution (Fein)
Captain Webb?
Col. Daniel Choike
[IRR- Individual Ready Reserve?] brought back to Quantico [missed].
Prosecution (Fein)
What happened to him?
Col. Daniel Choike
Killed himself.
Prosecution (Fein)
So, Quantico Brig was sensitive?
Col. Daniel Choike
Absolutely.
Prosecution (Fein)
Driving factor?
Col. Daniel Choike
I don’t know if it was a driving factor.
Prosecution (Fein)
Even senior officials’ [interests], press reports…what drove [those]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Blog entries that he was forced to stand naked.
Prosecution (Fein)
Then pinged Marines…?
Col. Daniel Choike
It came external through media.
Prosecution (Fein)
Any of that affect CO [commanding officer] [of the Brig to change?] confinement status?
Col. Daniel Choike
…insulate him from that pressure.
Prosecution (Fein)
How did you view your role?
Col. Daniel Choike
Four legs of the stool…made this case…are General Convening Authority for pretrial oversight of command and SJA [Staff Judge Advocate], medical and PAO reported to me, stand this thing up and provide appropriate staff had to ensure…under these difficult conditions…that they work [missed].
Prosecution (Fein)
Public Affairs alleged emails…did Marine Corps go on aggressive PAO campaign…[missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
I made sure to [missed] Colonel Johnson and Chuck Jenks [both Public Affairs Office]. [Response not clear from my notes.]
Prosecution (Fein)
Why did Marine Corp…nooses and [missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Marine Corp did not need any more attention. By going on campaign and more demonstrations and had already witnesses at…was a distraction, not worth safety and security and privacy of Pfc. Manning.
Prosecution (Fein)
Safety?
Col. Daniel Choike
Safety…self-harm…health or welfare.
Prosecution (Fein)
Security?
Col. Daniel Choike
Other individuals to do harm against him or breach security to prove a point and staying in front…
Prosecution (Fein)
And, his privacy?
Col. Daniel Choike
His medical…private…should not be made private for fair trial.
PROSECUTION ENDS CROSS-EXAMINATION OF COL. CHOIKE
DEFENSE R-EXAMINATION OF COL. CHOIKE
Defense (Coombs)
Said lifting [imaginary] weights?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware not allowed to exercise?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware physical health decision…you thought… He got 20 minutes until 10 December [2010]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Are you familiar with resistance training? You aware Brig [missed]…see resistance perfectly normal?
Col. Daniel Choike
He was allowed an hour and took less.
Defense (Coombs)
That is your recollection. Were you aware…licking the bars while sleepwalking?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
…overhear documented…that is the first time…lick the bars conduct was never documented?
Col. Daniel Choike
Not aware.
Defense (Coombs)
Not aware…never recorded down on statement?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Defense (Coombs)
Pfc. Manning quite and courteous?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Gunnery Sergeant Blenis would respond that his [Pfc. Manning’s] responses were short..talked to his jailers [missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. More jovial then other times…March Madness…college basketball, staff tried to and then he would stop talking to them, and then he abruptly ended them.
Defense (Coombs)
In March timeframe? If you are talking with jailers and they use it to take your underwear away from…everyone…if detainee feels comments…he might be reserved in comments used against [himself]? Captain Hocter and Col. Malone…[said] comments would be used against him?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.] Non responsive at all? Is that what…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Gunnery Sergeant Blenis was responsible to encourage participation.
Defense (Coombs)
[Pfc. Manning went before the] C&A board three time?
Col. Daniel Choike
I was only aware of one. …small talk, books, and his [missed]…what concerns he had.
Defense (Coombs)
Ever know a time he was not responsive?
Col. Daniel Choike
Not interacting…he would go into Gunnery Sergeant Blenis…into [his] office…he turned down [missed]. Sat Indian style…lots of things he could do…
Defense (Coombs)
Okay. Let’s go through that. What else was he suppose to do in an six by eight cell?
Col. Daniel Choike
He could read. He could watch TV…other than TV call never…[missed].
Defense (Coombs)
Exercise story…? [this line of questions deal with 18 January 2010 incident.]
Col. Daniel Choike
…restraints…they they tried to…he became irate and asking what…what he did wrong.
Defense (Coombs)
[Missed.] Why they are so upset?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Giving contradictory orders?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
He had an anxiety attack?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Indirectly? Col. Malone and Captain Hocter based upon rough treatment he was receiving..[missed]…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Never got complaints?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware ‘Coombs wrote to trial counsel’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware letter to CW4 Averhart, ‘Why is my client…’?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Before?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Defense (Coombs)
My blog?
Col. Daniel Choike
Your blog drove press accounts and reports.
Defense (Coombs)
1st Lt. Scott Villiard [Quantico spokesperson] not getting approval for press release?
Col. Daniel Choike
That comment is what set off Lt. Gen. Flynn.
Defense (Coombs)
So you never visited my blog?
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
DEFENSE ENDS RE-EXAMINATION OF COL. CHOIKE
JUDGE LIND EXAMINES COL. CHOIKE
Judge Lind
You were under [impression Pfc. Manning had] one hour or recreation call? What gave you that assumption?
Col. Daniel Choike
Report…MAX custody.
Judge Lind
SECNAV for classification…intimately familiar?
Col. Daniel Choike
No. Only from authority ranging from questions from [missed].
Judge Lind
Four protests? August 2010?
Col. Daniel Choike
August, September, January, and March. First two were in Quantico surrounding civilian community…to get to turn of [missed]…they said protests were at Quantico…not on [base].
Judge Lind
Any idea if protest in late…early…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Mid January.
Judge Lind
On or about same date with guards?
Col. Daniel Choike
Don’t recall. Middle of the month.
Judge Lind
CW5 Galaviz…did you ask him directly to get [missed] on his chain?
Col. Daniel Choike
Initially went seeking advice…who we could have internal…concluded he is best. Instead of [missed] him…contacted his chain of commanded. That is when I contacted [missed].
Judge Lind
Can someone’s custody status…could someone, say, medium custody then suicide risk? Starting in medium?
Col. Daniel Choike
You have to looked at having custody [missed]…when you talk about classification status…individual could be on POI…but handling instructions would be similar to MAX…isolate…no direct contact, but not in solitary. There were claims he was in solitary…he was not. Punitive segregation was not utilized.
Judge Lind
So medium custody co-located with MAX…MIN and MED OUT…?
Col. Daniel Choike
We have two [custody]…MAX and MED IN for detainees.
Judge Lind
So, those are the only two?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes. Other than pretrial confinees.
Judge Lind
Pretrial [held separate?] from others?
Col. Daniel Choike
Became more frequent with [Missed. Choike is talking about Base Realignment and Closure in 2005]…because on east coast there are few [missed]…deserters and turn in at Marine Corps Base Quantico…make part of separate…[missed] Regional Confinement Facility, Mid-Atlantic, Chesapeake, VA.
Judge Lind
[Service members] from other services…when in 2005…remaining did that because Marine Corp Base Quantico is a regional pretrial confinement…?
Col. Daniel Choike
…obligation to detain that individual… [This answer is not clear from my notes.]
Judge Lind
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Judge Lind
Discuss mental health…?
Col. Daniel Choike
I believe it might, because Quantico did have hospital…only a clinic…[missed].
Judge Lind
[Missed a question by Judge Lind where she asks Col. Choike about the first time Pfc. Manning was placed on suicide risk and then recommended to be downgraded by Captain Hocter.]
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Judge Lind
After?
Col. Daniel Choike
One month.
Judge Lind
Captain Hocter…treatment provided? Command?
Col. Daniel Choike
…what recommendation they have about suicide risk and handeling instruction.
Judge Lind
Is their POI in the SECNAV?
Col. Daniel Choike
It is in the administrative segregation handling instructions…created by mental health provider. It is a special handling instruction. POI is not a status.
Judge Lind
What is administrative segregation? Difference between that and punitive segregation?
Col. Daniel Choike
Harm…administrative segregation…any instruction like POI…someone said with [missed] contagious. Specific behaviors to certain behaviors…separated based on evaluation of OIC [Brig Commander].
Judge Lind
When additional charges preferred…you got notice day of?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Judge Lind
How soon after from Lt. Col. Greer [Staff Judge Advocate]…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Col. Malone made an attempt to contact him.
Judge Lind
You said no Article 138…no referral until mental health…when did you learn? Not after?
Col. Daniel Choike
…in process of notifying him.
Judge Lind
Captain Webb…Captain Hocter treated him for how long when he committed suicide?
Col. Daniel Choike
Not more than two months, not less than two weeks.
Judge Lind
[Missed.] Was CW4 Averhart OIC at the Brig at the time?
Col. Daniel Choike
No, but at Battalion level.
Judge Lind
And, he worked in the Brig?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Judge Lind
Was he personally involved?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Judge Lind
Did CW4 Averhart voice concerns about Captain Hocter’s recommendations…[missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
He never voiced specific concerns, no.
Judge Lind
Any concerns because he was wrong in Captain Webb case?
Col. Daniel Choike
No.
Judge Lind
Lt. Gen. Flynn TDY [Temporary Duty] or gone…? [Not clear from my notes.]
Col. Daniel Choike
Part of the reason I went to [missed] Col. Oltman about it.
Judge Lind
Saw email traffic…underwear before…notifying you?
Col. Daniel Choike
Did they talk…how long [after]? I cannot tell you details.
Judge Lind
Aware of 706 sanity board for the case?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Judge Lind
What it any impact did it have in [Brig commander’s determination of Pfc. Manning’s status]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Had effect because in on email…
Judge Lind
What did he say?
Col. Daniel Choike
CW4 Averhart said he was concerned with the delay in the 706 sanity board…[missed]…Article 32 …706 board would provide detailed and thorough and not only be detained but to stand trial.
Judge Lind
Review [custody and status]…do you believe…I saw criteria…CW4 Averhart…wait till 706 board before…?
Col. Daniel Choike
I think they work hard and get all observations and they included entire staff through C&A process.
Judge Lind
When Pfc. Manning [arrived]…48 hour ETA? [What was his expected length] for stay?
Col. Daniel Choike
…Not initially…lawyers put [missed]. Col. Meyer (sp.), Lt. Gen. Flynn in terms of [missed]. first 30 days…[then?] this was going to 18 months and 2 years.
Judge Lind
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
Individuals that were there, how they were going about their duties and long term…’Level 1′ or less post trial. Quantico went to pretrial…we were in the middle of transition…that was over a year, not yet completed.
Judge Lind
Who sent him?
Col. Daniel Choike
CW5 Galaviz signed on document…that sent Pfc. Manning to Quantico.
Judge Lind
[Missed.]
Col. Daniel Choike
[Missed.]
Judge Lind
One question about other individuals…did you come to this?
Col. Daniel Choike
Came to this. I called [missed] in terms of long term… Came up…he thought I was calling about PR…who would answer…that was only one piece… [Missed] legal, medical relationship. I did not…felt Pfc. Manning should not be detained for more than 90 days at Quantico.
Judge Lind
Is he aware 90 days cap at Quantico base?
Col. Daniel Choike
It was a constant discussion…why Lt. Gen. Flynn to do a review.
JUDGE ENDS EXAMINATION OF COL. CHOIKE
DEFENSE RE-EXAMINATION OF COL. CHOIKE
Defense (Coombs)
Captain Webb never MAX…suicide?
Col. Daniel Choike
Administrative segregation because officer…but, don’t know classification.
Defense (Coombs)
He committed suicide with [missed] with noose…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Pfc. Manning outside observation booth?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Pfc. Manning no rubber bands or plastic bags?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Article 138…she was fine with Col. Mark Kauzlarich [Marine Corps Base Quantico Chief of Staff]…?
Col. Daniel Choike
My Chief of Staff did not have urgency to het Col. Malone to show up [day additional charges were preferred].
Defense (Coombs)
Captain Neill was [missed] CW2 Barnes following up the next day. So, then Col. [Mark] Kauzlarich [Marine Corps Base Quantico Chief of Staff] and [missed] wanted Col. Malone that day?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
706 board…based on what you know…no decision on MAX POI was part of due process? [This is concerning the fact that CW4 Averhart Brig OIC said Pfc. Manning status would not change until completion of the 706 board]
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
And the C&A board…Gunnery Sergeant Blenis…reports of his…[missed]?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Look at recommendation…?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Come up with recommendation…three people to CW4 Averhart and CW2 Barnes to make decision?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Said that was process, because that gave due process?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
Defense has Government appellate exhibit 259, enclosure 24, page 63. Part of…read this…
Judge Lind
Number three, ‘SND remains in heightened…706 board…29 December 2010’
Defense (Coombs)
Were you aware MAX POI until 706 board done…?
Col. Daniel Choike
That is what it says.
Defense (Coombs)
Aware before?
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Defense (Coombs)
So, how can you say due process…C&A…that is a directive. December…first time received. CW2 Barnes switches out.
Col. Daniel Choike
He could have been when the 706 board was going to go. Actual date…[missed].
Defense (Coombs)
Lawyers asking…hadn’t been ordered to resume until February 2011? I don’t even know what that means.
Col. Daniel Choike
706 board was a weekly discussion.
Defense (Coombs)
You don’t think that is an order.
Col. Daniel Choike
No. I don’t think that is an order.
Defense (Coombs)
Okay. Explain. (e)(12) you don’t see that in order… it’s a ‘process that still continues…’
DEFENSE ENDS RE-EXAMINATION OF COL. CHOIKE
GOVERNMENT CROSS-EXAMINATION OF COL. CHOIKE
Prosecution (Fein)
Special order…next paragraph contained all orders.
Col. Daniel Choike
Yes.
Prosecution (Fein)
No further questions.
COL. CHOIKE IS DISMISSED.