Transcript | US v Pfc. Manning, Article 39(a) Session, 11/29/12

UPDATE POST COURT-MARTIAL

United States v. Pfc.Manning was conducted in de facto secrecy. The public was not granted contemporaneous access to court filings or rulings during her trial. In addition to reporting on her trial, I transcribed the proceedings, reconstructed the censored appellate list, and un-redacted any publicly available documentation, in order to foster public comprehension of her unprecedented trial.

As a result of a lawsuit against the military judge and the Military District of Washington brought by the Center for Constitutional Rights, as well as my own FOIA requests and research, an official court record for US v. Pfc. Manning was released seven months after her trial. That record is not complete.

The official trial docket is published HERE and the entire collection of documents is text searchable at usvmanning.org.

*During the pretrial proceedings, court-martial and sentencing of Pfc. Manning, Chelsea requested to be identified as Bradley and addressed using the male pronoun. In a letter embargoed for August 22, 2013 Chelsea proclaimed that she is female and wished to be addressed from that moment forward as Chelsea E. Manning.

This transcript was taken at the Article 39(a) Session held on November 29, 2012 at Fort Meade, Maryland in US v Pfc. Manning.

  • Judge: Army Col. Denise Lind
  • Prosecution: Major Ashden Fein, Captain Joe Morrow, Captain Angel Overgaard, Captain Hunter Whyte, Captain Alexander Von Elton
  • Defense: Mr. David Coombs, Captain Joshua Tooman, Major Thomas Hurley

ALL RISE

Judge Lind

Please be seated.This Article 39(a) Session is called to order.Let the record reflect all parties present when the Court last recessed, are again present in Court.

[...]

[The Court] received notice from the Government this morning [appellate exhibit 422] declassification [...] Osama Bin Laden media.[Is the first witness] Dr. Malone?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes [...]

Judge Lind

[Judge Lind then reads her ruling on the defense's proposed plea by substitution and exceptions. The judge read her ruling very quickly. Here is a summary. See as well the court ruling on proposed plea by substitution and exceptions.]

When the time came for the defense to file their anticipated plea. Pfc. Manning proposed the following revised plea for the Court's considerations. [See a portion of court colloquy on November 7, 2012].

In that revised plea, Pfc. Manning proposed to the Court that he might plead 'not guilty to' the following specifications as charged on March 1, 2011.:

  • The Spec, Charge I
  • Specification 16, Charge II
  • Specification 1, 2, 3, 4, Charge III Article 92

Manning proposed he might plead guilty to Specification 5, of Charge II as charged.

Manning also proposed pleas by exceptions and substitutions Specifications 1 through 15 of Charge II, Article 134.

The Judge accepted the defense's proposed pleas by exceptions and substitutions for eight specifications as proper lesser included offenses, and denied seven proposed pleas by exceptions and substitutions for seven specifications, ruling those seven improper pleas.

The Judge ruled that the proposed defense plea of guilt for lesser included offenses for Specifications 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, and 15 of Charge II under Article 134 was proper. Defense proposed removing the clause (3) federal code violation for 18 USC 793(e).

Below represents their pled substitution or exception

In that Private First Class E. Manning, U.S. Army, did, at or near [ALLEGED LOCATION] between on or about [ALLEGED DATE RANGE], having unauthorized possession of information relating to the national defense, to wit: [CHARGED INFORMATION], with reason to believe such information could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicate, deliver, transmit, or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, the said information, to a person not entitled to receive it, in violation of 18 U.S. Code Section 793(e), such conduct being prejudicial to good order and discipline in the armed forces and being of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

The Judge ruled that the proposed defense plea of guilt for lesser included offenses for Specifications 1 of Charge II as follows is improper because, 'knowing WikiLeaks might publish[...]' is not a subset of 'wrongly' and 'wantonly' and changes nature of the charged conduct:

In that Private First Class Bradley E. Manning, U.S. Army, did, at or near Contingency Operating Station Hammer, Iraq, between on or about 1 November 2009 and on or about 27 May 2010, wrongfully and wantonly cause to be published on the internet intelligence belonging to the United States government wrongfully [gave information to WikiLeaks], having knowledge that intelligence [information] published on the internet is accessible to [anyone with Internet would see] the enemy, such conduct being prejudicial to good order and discipline in the armed forces and being of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

The Judge ruled that the proposed defense plea of guilty for lesser included offenses for Specifications 4, 6, 8, and 12 of Charge II is improper because the Judge ruled that 'removal from a T-SCIF for unauthorized purpose' is not the pled element of 'taking, purloining, or knowingly convert to his use or the use of another' a clause (3) 18 USC 641 violation of Article 134.

In that Private First Class Bradley E. Manning, U.S. Army, did, at or near [ALLEGED LOCATION], between on or about [ALLEGED DATE RANGE], steal, purloin, or knowingly convert to his use or the use of another [removal from a T-SCIF for unauthorized purpose], a record or thing of value of the United States or of a department or agency thereof, to wit: [CHARGED INFORMATION AND ALLEGED VALUE], in violation of 18 U.S. Code Section 641, such conduct being prejudicial to good order and discipline in the armed forces and being of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

The Judge ruled that the proposed defense plea of guilty for lesser included offenses by striking the clause (3) federal violation of 1030(a)(1) for Specifications 13 and 14 of Charge II was not lesser included offenses of 1030(a)(1), regarding information requiring protection, as well as the proposed substitutions have an additional element.

In that Private First Class Bradley E. Manning, US Army, did, at or near [ALLEGED LOCATION], between on or about [ALLEGED DATE RANGE], [Defense according to a media inquiry with 'legal expert' 'substituted the element of unauthorized computer use' for 'unauthorized possession'] having knowingly exceeded authorized access [on a Secret Internet Protocol Router Network computer, and by means of such conduct having obtained information that has been determined by the United States government pursuant to an Executive Order or statute to require protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national defense or foreign relations, to wit: [CHARGED INFORMATION], willfully communicate , deliver, transmit, or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the said information, to a person not entitled to receive it, with reason to believe that such information so obtained could be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation , in violation of 18 US Code Section 1030(a)(1), such conduct being prejudicial to good order and discipline in the armed forces and being of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

The Judge ruled that the proposed defense plea of guilty by substitution for Specifications 11 of Charge II, a 793(e) offense like Specifications 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, and 15, was not a proper proposed plea because the substitution, namely the date of the offense pled in Specification 11, was not the date charged by the Convening Authority, and therefore not a proper plea. See oral argument for proposed plea by substitution and exceptions for Specification 11 for Charge II on November 28, 2012 for more information.

Finally, the proposed pleas of guilty for lesser included offenses for Specifications 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, and 15 of Charge II, and Specification 5 of Charge III totals 16 years confinement, dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay, and demotion to Private E1.

See also:

  • Oral argument for proposed plea by substitution and exceptions on November 28, 2012
  • Court colloquy proposed plea by substitution and exceptions on November 27, 2012
  • Plea and forum transcript and background on November 7, 2012
  • Plea and forum transcript on October 17, 2012
  • Court ruling on maximum punishment for lesser included offenses on July 19, 2012
  • Oral arguments for maximum punishment for lesser included offenses on July 18, 2012
  • Court ruling on government and defense motions for instructions for lesser included offenses

[Transcript as follows:]

On 26 of October I [asked the parties] to address [two questions related to the revised plea. See plea and forum transcript and background on November 7, 2012.]

(1) Is it a proper plea [the proper LIO (Lesser Included Offense)] or is it an amendment that required the Convening Authority's [...] US v. Morton (2010);

(2) Assuming plea is acceptable [to the] the Convening Authority what is the maximum punishment? US v. Beaty (2011)

[...]

Court considered [...] [parties required] no oral arguments[...] [The Court had oral argument on 28 November 2012 regarding] [...] Specification 11 of Charge II [There was also a mention of Specification 10 of Charge II in the oral argument].

1.) Accused plea to [with exceptions and substitutions] to Specifications 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, 15 [...] are lesser included offenses under 18 USC 793(e).

[...] if provident.

[This next portion related to the court's 19 July 2012 ruling regarding maximum lesser included offenses.]

Article 134 in the [Manual for Court Martial] [...] conduct mens rea not essentially same residual element for that offense [...] Army Regulation 380-5, of Article 92, two years, dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay[...] each offense with a total of 14 years for 7 Specifications.

2.) Court rules that the [accused plea by exceptions and substitutions in regards to] Specification 11 of Charge II [...] is an irregular plea. [...] RCM 917(b)

[Rule 917. Motion for a finding of not guilty

(b) Form of motion. The motion shall specifically indicate wherein the evidence is insufficient.

[...] is not a lesser included offense US v. Diaz

[...] accused is free to alternative [plea.] [...] without the approval of the Convening Authority [...] remaining not referred to this Court. US v. Morton (2010)

[...] this Court will not accept those pleas[...] by the accused. Does not [...] US v. Allen

a.) [...] the proposed plea [by exceptions and substitutions for] Specification 1 of Charge II is not a lesser included offense [...]

[...] 'knowing' WikiLeaks would publish is not a subset of 'wrongly' and 'wantonly' [...] changes nature of conduct [...]

b.) [...] the plea [by exceptions and substitutions for] Specification 4, 6, 8, 12 are not lesser included offenses[...] included essence of 18 USC 641 of Article 134

'taking, purloining, [missed one]' is not the pled element 'removal for unauthorized purpose'.In addition they contain an additional element [...]

c.) [...] plea [by exceptions and substitutions] for Specification 13 and 14 are not lesser included offenses[...] 1030(a)(1) [...] to information to require protection[...] proposed substitutions have an additional element [...]

d.) [...] Specification 11 of Charge II [...] [See oral arguments for 28 November 2012.] [...] [Government charges act took place] 1 November 2009 to 8 January 2010.

[The Government alleges another act on ] 10 to 12 April 2010.

[The pled act is] not referred.

[...] plea to Specification 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, and 15 of Charge II and [...] Specification 5 of Charge III

Proposed plea reduction to Private E1; forfeiture of pay; 16 years; dishonorable discharge.

So ordered 28 November 2012.

[I missed the calling, swearing in, and a few initial questions by the defense to Colonel Ricky Malone, former Quantico Brig forensic psychiatrist, based at Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington. Malone stated that he has supervised for approximately ten years.He does so by discussing the case and reviewing reports.He performed services at the Quantico Brig and conducted 706 board related functions concerning Pfc. Manning on site.As a forensic consultant he specializes in policy issues. He became Pfc. Manning's treating forensic psychiatrist when Captain Hocter deployed.Before that he consulted with Captain Hocter as a reviewing psychiatrist. He recognized appellate exhibit 420(a) as a general form that Captain Hocter used when he consulted with Col. Malone.]

Colonel Ricky Malone

[...] it's okay for him to, you know, be free within the confines of the ward, but not be able to leave the ward, and then can leave the ward.So, those are that's sort of the gradation that we use from a clinical standpoint.So, there's sort of a gap in that model to defined the facility.

Defense (Coombs)

What are you looking at from a clinical standpoint to see that somebody is in fact warranted in being reduced down from the various grades.

Colonel Ricky Malone

It's a from the severity of their condition, based on the signs and the symptoms-- what they're reporting.It's what they will share with us about, you know, their thoughts of self-harm-- you know, their plans or instances they might have. And, then any observable behaviors that you might see that they are actually actively contemplating or making some arrangements to harm themselves.

Defense (Coombs)

Now you also-- retrieving appellate exhibit 420 alpha from the witness, and handing the witness appellate exhibit 420 charlie, which is dated 27 August.You also consulted with Captain Hocter on that day, is that correct?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

And, can you tell the Court why you consulted on that day?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Both of-- When he consulted with me that was an ongoing process, so that I stayed engaged in that consultation for a few weeks.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.Tell us about that then.

Colonel Ricky Malone

As I recall, I did go back and do follow up visits with Private Manning.I don't recall how [missed a few words] or how many.I think it was probably every week or two, and then I made probably a couple of those follow up visits.And, then was really just discussing the case with Captain Hocter, but also based on what-- what he was saying.

Defense (Coombs)

And from appellate exhibit 420 charlie, it indicates that Captain Hocter was recommending now taking Pfc. Manning off of all precautions.And, you concurred with that.Did he accurately reflect you concurrence?

Colonel Ricky Malone

He did, but he mentioned the idea of being checked every fifteen minutes.So, that was were from making the comparison to what we would do on a psychiatric ward, and the [missed word] fifteen minute checks, and that in essence that's what was happening because of his MAX custody status.

Defense (Coombs)

Now I want to talk just real briefly about medication that Pfc. Manning was under.When Pfc. Manning arrived at the Brig, he was under Celexa and clonazepam, and I would like to handle those in turn.What is Celexa?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Celexa is an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medication. It's what we call an SSRI, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. It's something that, you know, has to be [missed word] into the an effected dose over a period of time. Generally takes anywhere from two to six weeks to start having an effect.

Defense (Coombs)

And so, for Celexa, he was-- according to the records, and correct me if I am wrong-- he was given that at the very beginning of July 2010, while he was still in Kuwait?

Colonel Ricky Malone

That sounds correct.

Defense (Coombs)

And, you say it would take two to six weeks for that medication to take effect?

Colonel Ricky Malone

At least.

Defense (Coombs)

And from a clinical standpoint, when you say take effect what do you start to see when the medication starts to take effect?

Colonel Ricky Malone

You see a decrease in the symptom side of the-- lowering anxiety.In his case it was more of anxiety than depression, so that the lowering anxiety and then any symptom-- signs or symptoms that you might have, in terms of anxiety-- like [missed word] shakiness or just subjective feelings of nervousness-- those go down-- sleep improves.

Defense (Coombs)

And from a clinical standpoint, if somebody is sleep deprived and very anxious, will this medication help them?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Probably not.I mean it's not going to take a normal reaction and blunt that.All it does is if somebody is having a pathological level of anxiety it's gonna let them have a normal range of emotions. So, they'll still react to the environmental conditions or things that might happen to them.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what about clonazepam?What is that for?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Clonazepam is a-- it's basically a sedative in the valium family.So, it's something that has an effect right away-- you know, calming people down.

Defense (Coombs)

So, by the time that Pfc. Manning arrived to the Quantico Brig, he had been under this medication for approximately four weeks. Would his improvement be something that you would expect to see based upon receiving the medication?

Colonel Ricky Malone

That and the changes in his conditions.I mean that a-- just by the-- at Camp Arifjan--you know, you know you are in a temporary circumstances and things are going to change.You know, getting moved back to the States-- now you know you are going to be there for a certain period of months.So, there is a certain degree of stability in your environment, but things that happen to you on a day to day basis are going to start becoming more routine.So, that decreases the level of stress, and then the medication is also having an effect on the serotonin receptors over that period of time.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Now was there a time when you assumed sole clinical care for Pfc. Manning?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I did.In the January-- Captain Hocter was deploying, and since I had already been involved, I filled in for-- for Private Manning and then we also-- some of my trainees were coming out there to deliver care to the other detainees as well.So, during the course of those visits, supervising them-- and then I would do some-- I had some sole care up by Private Manning.

Defense (Coombs)

And when you say January, you are saying January 2011?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, once you took over the sole clinical care for Pfc. Manning, how frequently would you see him?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Usually weekly.

Defense (Coombs)

And how long would your weekly reviews be?

Colonel Ricky Malone

How long would I spend with him?

Defense (Coombs)

Right.

Colonel Ricky Malone

Typically an hour.Frequently, more.

Defense (Coombs)

And what was involved with these weekly reviews?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, there was-- you know, just a-- clinical assessment.That's what is was.So, getting an idea of what sort of problems he was experiencing-- what sort of symptoms he was exhibiting.You know, how his sleep might be.What his mood was like, those sorts of things. And then, you know, also-- I mean it was therapeutic as well, and that-- you know, I would sort of focus on the things that were bothering him, and try to help him to cope with those things.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, as part of your treatment, did you consider any observations by the Quantico Brig?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I did.Typically when I arrived at the Brig, I would talk the detention staff about what their observations might have been the past week.Sometime [missed a few words] review, and then if anything had happened medically that would have gotten me to review the medical records.

Defense (Coombs)

And was this a formal sit down-- let's say like the Brig OIC [Officer in Charge] or the DBS [Duty Brig Supervisor], or was this more informal were you talked to whoever was on staff at the time and looked at the log books?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It was-- it was typically more informal.

Defense (Coombs)

And was this a more informal thing by your choice or was this by the Brig's position?

Colonel Ricky Malone

By my choice.

Defense (Coombs)

And why would that be?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, I guess, you know, I get better-- a better idea of what is going on under those circumstances.You know, anytime I am getting someone-- a third party's observations of behavior, I realize that they are going to put a certain, you know, interpretation on it, and I am notreally interested in interpretation.I just want to get a picture of what happened and make my own interpretation of it.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.Now as part of your weekly reviews, did you make recommendations to the confinement facility regarding Pfc. Manning's risk of harm-- self harm?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I didn't specifically make recommendations. I kind of provide them the input that I thought they needed about his mental condition, in order-- in order to make that decision.

So, rather than actually recommending that he be on some certain status, you know-- so after a short period of time it was my impression that he had little or no clinical risk of self-harm, and that was what I was trying to communicate.

Defense (Coombs)

And from your standpoint, if-- if someone has little or no risk of self-harm, is that someone who needs to be on prevention of injury status?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Not-- not from a psychiatric standpoint.

Defense (Coombs)

And did you convey that to the Quantico Brig?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I did.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how so?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, I-- I would always do a report from one of these Classification & Assignment forms, and then you might notice that I actually revised that form afterI had been there for a short period of time.So, I thought it [would] provide more, you know, useful information to them.

And, then, usually if the-- if Chief Warrant Officer Brig-- Barnes was available I would actually talk to her about, you know, what I had seen and what my impressions were.So, basically do a little out brief with her before I left.

Defense (Coombs)

And these out briefs with Chief Barnes, how long would they normally last?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Between five and thirty minutes?

Defense (Coombs)

And when you were expressing to her the fact that Pfc. Manning didn't represent a risk of self-harm from a clinical standpoint, and POI was not necessary, did she respond to that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

She explained to me that there were other criteria that she had to take into account. So that my input was just one piece of that.

[Missed word] she [missed word] that in order to make that determination.And, she would give me her impressions of what his behavior-- again, the things that they had seen.

And, you know, how they looked at that.And that would be the general-- some of the behaviors that they would-- they would attribute more risk to that than I would as a clinician.

Defense (Coombs)

And let's talk about some of those observed behaviors.Did the Brig ever share with you the fact that they saw Pfc. Manning talking to himself.

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And staring at the wall while he's in his cell?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Right.Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

And playing peek a boo with the mirror while he's in the cell?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

Pretending he's lifting weights while he is in the cell?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I don't recall that.

Defense (Coombs)

Did they tell you about the-- apparently one time licking the bars while he was sleepwalking?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I don't-- I don't recall that.

Defense (Coombs)

So, the other ones that you do recall, how-- how was the Brig explaining them to you to suggest that there was an elevated risk to those behaviors?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, it was just that it was unusual behaviors, and when they would ask him about it, he couldn't adequately explain it to their satisfaction.So, just adding a degree of uncertainty to them.

Defense (Coombs)

And, from your clinical perspective, why weren't these behaviors something that was [missed word]?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, we discussed in, you know, I didn't see any intent for self-harm behind those.

I-- I think they were-- it was sort of the defense he would used in terms of intellectualizing things, and so he could-- he would have rationalizations with justifications for some of those behaviors.

You know, I think sometimes, I mean it was just being a bit-- I don't want to say non-compliant-- but, you know, it would be a bit provocative, and that-- he just didn't want to do exactlywhat they wanted him to do or sometimes he could actually do just the opposite, and overdo it.

But, I think in-- there was some expectation of getting a reaction.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you think the-- from the standpoint of just being in his cell and playing peek a boo or staring at the wall, can that be explained by just being bored?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Absolutely.A lot of the things that I heard I thought were just a way of him to try to, you know,provide some sort of stimulation.

I mean, he's an extremely intelligence young man. He-- he, you know, has a tendency to sort of intellectualize, so he can get very bored.

And, in-- in fact, a lot of the time we spent in our sessions, was really was my effort just to-- to do that.

We would talk about things that you might not see any therapeutic value to the-- but I knew that-- that was giving him some interaction and some intellectual stimulation that-- that he wasn't getting during the rest of the week.

Defense (Coombs)

Now from a clinical standpoint, you indicated that you did not believe POI status was required.I want to talk about some of the other special precautions that they took to see whether or not you believed those were required, okay?

Did you believe that Pfc. Manning needed to have a suicide mattress?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I didn't think he needed suicide precautions [missed a few words].

Defense (Coombs)

So that would included having his clothes removed from him at night?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

Or having to have-- being forced to wear a suicide smock at night?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

What about not being allowed to have toilet paper in his cell?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

Correct meaning that he should have been allowed to have that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.I saw no reason for any types of safety precautions.

And, I even tried to communicate that, you know, in a clinical analogy that, you know, if I were treating him as an outpatient, I wouldn't be concerned and taking these sort of precautions.

In fact, if I was seeing him in my clinic, I would probably only be seeing him once or twice a month, at that point.I wouldn't have any concerns about his behaviors in between.That was-- I tried to communicate that way was as well.

Defense (Coombs)

And when you tried to communicate that to the Brig what was their response?

Colonel Ricky Malone

'Thank you.' 'Thank you for your input.'

Defense (Coombs)

Did you feel that your input was-- was not being followed, and ignored?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I felt that there were other considerations that were outweighing whatever my input might have been.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were those other considerations transparent to you?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Some of it was.Some of it, I think was implied.

You know, I do know that there was a great deal of risk aversion there during that time, because they had had a suicide there the year before.

And, you know, they were determined to not have that happen again under any circumstances.

Defense (Coombs)

And did you see the same risk aversion with other detainees besides Pfc. Manning.

Colonel Ricky Malone

No, I did not.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever tell Chief Barnes that Pfc. Manning custody status was becoming another stressor for him?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I did.

Defense (Coombs)

And what did you mean by this?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It-- it was just something else that would add to this degree of stress, and since I was treating him for anxiety, that is just another obstacle for me to have to overcome.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what was Chief Barnes' response?

Colonel Ricky Malone

She acknowledged that and felt that it was necessary.

Defense (Coombs)

Did the Quantico Brig ever follow your recommendations regarding the fact that Pfc. Manning was not a risk for self-harm?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well I-- I believe they left him on prevention of injury status the whole time, so in that regard, no.

Defense (Coombs)

Did anyone from the Quantico Brig explain in any detail why they-- they believed the opinion from their forensic psychiatrist regarding risk to self harm was not being followed?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No, other than, 'We just don't want to have another suicide on my watch.'

Defense (Coombs)

From a clinical standpoint, is being held the way Pfc. Manning was held detrimental to a person's mental and physical health?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, in general being held, you know, in alone in a cell for 23 hours a day is going to have detriment of anybody.

In his case, because I was treating him for anxiety disorder-- again, you know, any additional stressor just makes it harder to overcome that-- but, you know, as you can see, he did-- because, he did eventually got into full remission anyway.

Defense (Coombs)

And we will talk about full remission-- but, from your standpoint, did Pfc. Manning's custody status place him in unnecessary risk from a medical standpoint?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I wouldn't say that it placed him in risk.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why is that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Because, it is just one other factor that I would consider.

So, it's an additional stressor.And, so I mean what is-- what is the, you know, the marginal implement that this stressor adds compared to all of the other stressors that he is undergoing?

So, I realize anybody can find that for whatever has a certain degree of stress.

So, these extra restrictions have much more, does that add?So, it's-- it's increased stressor, which makes it tougher to treat anxiety, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it elevates the stress.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.During your time there did-- did you ever document to suggest that Pfc. Manning was a risk of escape?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever document any behavior to suggest that Pfc. Manning was a disruptive detainee?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever document any behavior to suggest that Pfc. Manning was a violent detainee?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever document any behavior to suggest that Pfc. Manning was at all a danger detainee to himself of others?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, early on there was some risk of self-harm; but, once that had resolved there was no risk of harm to self or others.

Defense (Coombs)

Was Pfc. Manning ever taken off of his medication?

Colonel Ricky Malone

He was.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why was that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

After a certain point of treatment that-- you know, I don't recall exactly how long-- but, several weeks-- maybe a couple of months, he was basically symptom free from his anxiety disorder.

He had expressed a desire to come off of the medication, which is always an important consideration for being-- whether a person actually wants--

And, so we had a discussion about risks and benefits of-- of the medication-- that in general I would have recommended that he stayed on it for a longer period of time.

But, given that he was symptom free, he wanted-- he preferred to come off of the medication.And, I knew he was under close observation, so I had a lot less-- I had no risk aversion about, you know, the downside of taking him off of the medication.

So, you know, I felt it would be very therapeutic to, you know, give him-- get him that reference, and to come off of it.

Defense (Coombs)

And, was he actually taken off of the medication?

Colonel Ricky Malone

He was.I [missed a word] recommended over a period of time, and then he came off of it.

Defense (Coombs)

Did Chief Barnes ever speak to you about the decision to take Pfc. Manning off of his medication?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I do not recall.

Defense (Coombs)

Did she ever tell you that she thought her decision to allow that they take him off of medication was a mistake?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I don't recall that.Well, we might of-- we might of discussed it.

Defense (Coombs)

From your perspective would it be typical for a Brig OIC to question the decision over whether a detainee needs medication or not?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It is quite common-- you know, a Brig OIC or a company commander, because their concerns about the people under their charge-- you know, might have questions about that, and ask for additional explanation.

Defense (Coombs)

And, ultimately though, obviously those questions, you would as the expert respond to say why your decision was the appropriate one, correct?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Right.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you have any issues with Pfc. Manning once he was taken off of his medication?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No, he remained in complete remission-- symptom free after that.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever hear about an order being given by Colonel Oltman to keep Pfc. Manning in MAX-- in MAX custody and POI?

Colonel Ricky Malone

You know, I think I might have heard about that second hand from Captain Hocter.I was not-- I mean I wasn't there at the time.

Defense (Coombs)

From your perspective, if such an order where given would that cause concern as a mental health professional?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, only in that--

Judge Lind

--Hold on just a moment.[to prosecution] Yes?

Prosecution (Morrow)

Objection, your Honor.Not exactly sure what the order we're discussing is?I mean he wasn't there, he's already said that it was second hand and now we are getting pretty far away from first hand knowledge.

Judge Lind

I'll overrule and let him ask the question. Go ahead.

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, in that it's-- it's a-- it's like an additional consideration for making that determination, and actually one's that gonna, you know, obligate any need for the expression if he can handle it-- because, it's not going to matter.

There would be concern in that regard. If-- if you want the concern just from a military standpoint, that-- it's sort of getting out of one's lane to then start directing medical care.

Defense (Coombs)

And, from your perspective when it comes to medical care, who should own that lane?

Colonel Ricky Malone

That's sort of more of a philosophical question. I mean to me that's a partnership between the me and the patient usually.

Patient obviously has the ultimate decisions of, you know, what they're going to do with the care that I try to give them.

I understand the military-- that, you know, commanders have a vested interest in that as well, so, you know, I do sort of take that into consideration-- but, ultimately when it gets down to the clinical part of it, that's up to me.

Defense (Coombs)

Were there other factors that the Brig was considering that were outweighing your clinical recommendations that they actually set down with you and said, 'Here are those factors that we are considering'?

Colonel Ricky Malone

[Missed a word]-- Chief Warrant Barnes did explain to me that there were other criteria, and I believe she did discuss what some of those were.

You know, just some in terms of, you know, any custodial decision that she might have to make.

So, that would include the clinical piece-- you know, the clinical assessment of the condition, and then things like, you know, risk of flight; risk-- or vulnerability to exploitation; the severity of the charges; and, a host of others.

Defense (Coombs)

And, so when you said she kind of explained it, did she actually show you, you know, 'Here are my issues,' or the one's you just--

Colonel Ricky Malone

--No.

Defense (Coombs)

-- mentioned is how she expressed it to you?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No.

Defense (Coombs)

No, meaning?I'm sorry, sir.

Colonel Ricky Malone

No.She didn't-- she did not go through all of her reasoning and tell me why she was-- she was going to keep him on POI status.

Defense (Coombs)

And did you ever see other detainees come into the Brig that were on a, say, MAX and suicide risk-- or MAX and POI status and then eventually downgraded?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I do recall one other during that time period, but I wasn't involved in his care, but one of my fellows was.So, we would discuss his case in terms of supervising her, the fellow.

Defense (Coombs)

Have you ever treated other patients that were held in their cell basically 23 hours a day?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I have.I provided coverage at the DB [Disciplinary Barracks] at Leavenworth over a period of a year.

I was stationed in San Antonio, and we would have a psychiatrist up there for one of [missed a few words] and they would do [missed word] medication [missed a word]-- you know, I did treat a couple of the inmates on death row there.They were in similar circumstances.

Defense (Coombs)

So, the inmates on death row at the DB were under similar circumstances as the kind of status of Pfc. Manning?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, in terms of being MAX custody and the restrictions that that would have-- in terms of how much time in the cell, and how much time out of the cell.

Defense (Coombs)

I want to ask you a couple of questions about and incident that took place on the 18th January 2011, okay?Do you recall an incident where Pfc. Manning might have had an anxiety attack while on recreation call?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Captain Hocter told me about that incident.

Defense (Coombs)

And what do you-- what do you-- what do you recall based upon that conversation?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I recall-- I recall-- I don't recall exactly what had happened, but I do recall that that there was some [missed word] disturbance and Captain Hocter actually, you know, came later.

He wasn't at the Brig at the time.I believe he was probably over in the clinic at Quantico.He came over-- did an assessment, and he did have concerns.I believe that there was some increase in risk at that point, and recommended some restrictions.

Defense (Coombs)

Retrieving from the witness, what has been marked 420 charlie-- appellate exhibit 420 charlie, and handing the witness appellate exhibit 423 alpha.Do you recognize this?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I do.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what is this form?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, this is from one of those Classification & Assignment boards.And, this was-- I mean a couple of days later I was at the Brig and Captain Hocter had not filled out any of these forms for that incident, and they were asking for one for the records.

So, all I could do at that point was review what Captain Hocter had done.And he did document in his clinical note that he had made those recommendations.So, I documented that-- that he had made that recommendation.

Defense (Coombs)

And, so in this instance that indicates that Captain Hocter recommended 24 hour POI?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

Retrieving from the witness appellate exhibit 423 alpha and handing the witness 423 bravo.Can you tell me what this is, sir?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It's another of the-- the Classification & Assignment forms.The one that I had filled out on January 21, 2011.

Defense (Coombs)

And, sir, why did you fill out this document?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It was reassessing him after that incident, and at that point I had assumed his care.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what was your recommendation regarding whether POI was needed?

Colonel Ricky Malone

My comment that there was no psychiatric reason to keep him on POI.

Defense (Coombs)

And why was this your recommendation?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Because I thought that his risk of suicide at that point was, you know, at an acceptable base line-- I mean, you know, low risk. Not zero -- it's never zero, but it was low, like in terms of observation.

Defense (Coombs)

I want to ask you a few questions about some of the precautions then-- that in this instance that the Brig took base upon an incident that took place on 2 March 2011, okay?

Do you recall on that day Pfc. Manning making any sort of comments to the Brig staff concerning his underwear?

Colonel Ricky Malone

That-- at that point he had made a comment that, you know, if he really wanted to kill himself that he could use his underwear to do that.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you talk to Pfc. Manning about that comment?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I did after the fact.

Defense (Coombs)

And, based upon your conversation with him how did you view that comment?

Colonel Ricky Malone

You know, I didn't think that, you know, it expressed any plans or intent to commit suicide.

It was really just sort of a-- a comment that-- you know, 'If you think I'm gonna increase your suicide-- well these are the things-- that if I wanted to commit suicide, I could.'

That was the way that I viewed it.Again, it-- it represents some lack of insight knowing that the scrutiny that he's under that he is still going to say something like that-- yet on the other hand, it's basically an honest answer to what was going on.

Defense (Coombs)

You indicated in your notes that Pfc. Manning was simply intellectualizing his frustrations with POI precautions. Can you explain why you felt that way?

Colonel Ricky Malone

He-- he was experiencing a great deal of frustration and he was trying to cope with that.

And, if you-- if you consider defense mechanisms from a psychological stand point-- you know, one of his favorites is intellectualization.

So, in order to deal with that, he would think about it in those terms.And, so-- so he could make comments that would be, you know, purely from an intellectual standpoint without considering, you know, other ramifications about what that might be communicating to somebody else.

Defense (Coombs)

And, can you give us an example of-- of that behavior, just in the abstract of somebody doing that?

And it doesn't have to be a hardcore example as far as-- but why would somebody do that I guess-- you know, have that intellectualization of something and not understanding how it might be interpreted?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well-- it's-- it's really sort of a compartmentalizing.

You know, the feelings that go along with that are-- are intolerable-- the frustration and, you know, anxiety might go along with that.And, so to-- for the-- so, to divorce yourself from that you look at it purely from an intellectual standpoint.

And, I think the-- this example sort of shares that-- where you want to talk about suicide precautions.

You know, you sort of the-- it's an intellectual argument about-- or 'Here's this.Here's that.'And we can go back and forth, without considering that-- the people are going to interpret this differently.

People are going to interpret this as, 'I'm thinking about this,' or they might retaliate somehow.You know, any-- any other considerations that might come into [missed word].

Defense (Coombs)

In your experience if someone is actually planning to commit suicide-- or harming themselves, would they voice that and tell others?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Typically towards the end.When somebody has made up their mind that they are going to commit suicide, they don't talk about it.

Defense (Coombs)

Why is that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Because, they don't want to be stopped. There is no ambivalence.

You know, most people when they're feeling suicidal are gonna have some ambivalence about it, because they hurt so bad they want to die, but yet they don't want to die.

They just want to stop hurting, and that would be lead them to have-- have observable behaviors or-- or say things about.

But, once somebody is really made up their mind, 'This is it,' theytypically actually feel a bit reassured by that.

Then, 'Okay it's gonna be over with now.' And, they wouldn't do anything that would help somebody to stop them.

Defense (Coombs)

Retrieving from the witness 423 bravo, and handing the witness appellate exhibit 423 charlie.Can you tell me what this document is?

Colonel Ricky Malone

This is the revision of the Classification & Assignment form that I had made.

Defense (Coombs)

And how did you revise the document?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well-- I mean basically I took a DA 3822 Report of Mental Status Evaluation and customized it in order to provide the input that I thought that they would need in the-- in the-- in an administrative type of determination I guessed.

Judge Lind

What was the name of that form you just said?

Colonel Ricky Malone

A DA 3822.

Judge Lind

And what is it?

Colonel Ricky Malone

A Report of Mental Status Evaluation.

Defense (Coombs)

Can you explain your findings section-- just go through each of your findings and explain what it means?

Colonel Ricky Malone

The second section under the word, 'findings'?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes-- yes, sir.

Colonel Ricky Malone

The mental disorder was resolved meaning that at this point his anxiety disorder that I was treating before was in complete remission, and risk for suicide or self harm was low, and that's because is never non existent, but it is at least down to where the general population would be-- it's based on.This X was, is, and always was low.

And then, behavior disturbance is or is not a treatable mental disorder.I mean the whole idea of having that-- that there, helps us to distinguish basically anti-social behaviors, personality disorders-- you know, things that people are going to do anyway, not due to anxiety or depression or psychosis-- something that we could treat.

And, I marked that one applicable, because at that time he did not have a mental disorder.

And, then there was no need to segregate him from the general population due to a mental disorder, realizing that there are other considerations for segregation.And, requiring routine follow up.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you-- what is the date of your evaluation?

Colonel Ricky Malone

March 5th 2011.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall the Brig trying to have you be present when Pfc. Manning was receiving his new charges, right [missed a word] along [missed a word] the Article 138 response on the 2nd of March-- two days earlier to this eval?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I do recall that going on.I mean I haven't seen my clinical notes.

I don't recall exactly what I did there.I-- I do see that this-- this evaluation reflects that with all that additional stressor that he had, I didn't see any change in his condition.So, that he was-- he was coping normally at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you aware of any sort of push from Quantico, to contact your higher command, in order to force you to be present on either the 2nd or 3rd of March?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No.

Defense (Coombs)

During that time period, where were you at on the 2nd or 3rd of March?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I don't recall.I was probably at the old Walter Reed Hospital on Georgia Avenue.

Defense (Coombs)

There's some documentation that you were on emergency leave?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I don't recall.

Defense (Coombs)

Was 4 March your schedule time to see Pfc. Manning?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I am not sure.If you could determine what day of the week that was-- I don't recall. I think in general I was seeing him on Fridays at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

I believe that is a Friday.

Colonel Ricky Malone

Okay.

Defense (Coombs)

So, from your standpoint, nobody tried to contact you and say that you were deficient in anyway for not being present on the 2nd and 3rd of March?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Not that I was aware of.

Defense (Coombs)

Retrieving from the witness appellate exhibit 423 charlie.Thank you, sir that's all the questions I have for you at this time.I think the Government will have some questions.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Good morning, sir.

Colonel Ricky Malone

Good morning.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Just give me a second here-- I'm gonna try to organize myself.Sir,you were initially brought on as a consult to Captain Moore, regarding risk management?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Captain Hocter.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Captain Hocter, excuse me.

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yes.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, in January 2011 you took over as the treating psychiatrist for Pfc. Manning?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, I want to talk a little bit about your initial-- once you became the treating psychiatrist-- some of that Classification & Assignment forms.Mr. Coombs earlier handed you a Classification & Assignment form dated 21 January 2011?

Judge Lind

Any objection to this going on line with the same appellate exhibit D-E-F?

Defense (Coombs)

No objection from the defense, your Honor.

Prosecution (Morrow)

No objection, your Honor.I am handing the witness what has been marked at appellate exhibit 423 delta.Sir, please look over this form for a second.

Colonel Ricky Malone

Okay.

Prosecution (Morrow)

What's the date of that form?

Colonel Ricky Malone

January 28th 2011.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And can you read the remarks please?

Colonel Ricky Malone

'Remains at moderate risk of self-harm, which has improved since arrival.Would not require a higher level of psychiatric care to mitigate risk at this point.Requires routine outpatient follow up.Frustration tolerance has improved, but still somewhat below average.Limited ability to express or understand his feelings.Risks and benefits of POI are not further detrimental at this time.'

Prosecution (Morrow)

Sir, let's begin with the first sentence.You said he 'remains at moderate risk of self-harm.'You were aware that-- and actually you were as a consult-- as a consult to Captain Hocter you were aware that he was recommending removal of POI sometime after August.Is that correct?August 2010?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, during that time he was indicating that Pfc. Manning was at a lower risk of self-harm?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Why did you say that he remained at a moderate risk of self harm?I realize, you know, we are talking semantics-- but, I was wondering whether you thought that, that was a change in any way from what Captain Hocter had-- had previously indicated?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, there was a temporary increase in his risk after that anxiety attack episode in January.This was in the aftermath of that.

So, it was sort of recognizing that-- Yes, that degree of anxiety increases risk some, but I called it moderate, but it was still, you know, less than what he came in with-- which was-- was, I think, unequivocally higher when he first got there.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, you also said that the risks and benefits of POI are not further detrimental at this time, what did you mean by that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, if you look at the additional stressors created by the additional restrictions of being of that POI status and whatever benefit that they might provide in terms of lowering his risk of self harm-- sort of balanced out.

So, that, you know-- recognizing that, 'Yeah. That is an additional stressor. And, that is something, you know-- you know, we want to-- to do as little as possible'-- but, yet there is also some [missed word] risk here-- so there is some benefit to, you know, mitigating that risk with these restrictions-- and that, that would balance out [missed a few words].

Prosecution (Morrow)

Okay. Retrieving the appellate exhibit. Sir, as you-- as you became acquainted with the Quantico Brig staff, it became somewhat apparent to you that they wereconcerned about the risk of suicide.Is that correct?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Suicide was a-- or is a fairly high profile concern of many people in the DoD [Department of Defense] community?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, so specifically in the Brig, because they had had a suicide previously in the Brig, and so they were sensitive to that problem?

Colonel Ricky Malone

That was my impression.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, you also thought it was uncommon for the Brig not to listen to clinical advice-- I'm sorry.

You thought it was-- you thought it was uncommon for the Brig not to listen to clinical advice-- orto listen to the clinical advice, but not to follow the clinical advice--excuse me. So, I just want to back up.

You thought it was uncommon for the Brig to listen to the clinical advice, but not follow the clinical advice?Is that accurate?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I think in my experience, most of the time clinical advice is followed-- but certain, you know-- some fraction of times, you know, commanders, Brigs, whatever are going to have other considerations and not follow that clinical advice.

Prosecution (Morrow)

But, you'd agree that your clinical opinion or any other doctor's clinical opinion is-- is a piece of-- of the decision?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, when you were discussing-- or when you were the treating psychiatrist for Pfc. Manning, you indicated that you would meet with the Brig staff prior to being with Pfc. Manning?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, you would discuss there observations?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, then you would meet with Pfc. Manning--and, then afterwards you would also discuss sort of your impressions of-- of your being with Pfc. Manning with the Brig afterwards?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Frequently.I mean I always provided that written guidance if Chief Warrant Officer Barnes wasn't available or, you know, his-- his counselor at-- if they were available I would, you know, make sure that-- if they had any questions about what I was saying, or explain to them, I would give them, you know, additional input.

Prosecution (Morrow)

But that was sort of the typical-- but meaning before and after was the typical routine?

Colonel Ricky Malone

That was-- that was my typical routine.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, during your meetings with Pfc. Manning he was obviously frustrated by his status.Is that correct?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, he would sort of give his version of events?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Uh--

Prosecution (Morrow)

--Or he would give his version of events [missed word]?He would explain to you, what he perceived to be what was going on?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yes.In that-- I mean he was-- he would describe the same events that I had heard about from the Brig staff.

I would also get their interpretation, sir.

And, I would talk to the staff about their interpretation of it, and then I talked to him about his interpretation of it-- and eventually I had to rely on him.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, so you were-- you were-- you were getting the-- sort of both sides of the story, whenever you would meet with Pfc. Manning?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, at some point it became clear to you that Pfc. Manning was contributing to the issues at the Brig as much as the Brig staff made them?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I don't know if I could say, 'as much as,' but he was certainly contributing something to them.

Prosecution (Morrow)

He was-- he was provocative?

Colonel Ricky Malone

At times.

Prosecution (Morrow)

At times. And, although the Brig staff was a little rigid, they were professional?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And again, suicide had weighed-- weighted heavily on their minds?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Absolutely.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Sir, I want to talk to you about the form used at the Brig for the weekly visits with Pfc. Manning.

You indicated earlier that you-- sometime after you took over as the treating psychiatrist, you changed the form. Is that correct?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct. It was-- it was just a local-- I mean homemade form that they were using, and-- and I didn't think it was actually provided useful information-- or as useful as it could be.That is why I chose to revise it.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And you wanted-- you wanted to make the form more standardized?

Colonel Ricky Malone

True.

Prosecution (Morrow)

You wanted to the form to communicate relevant clinical information?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, the Brig staff appreciated the change?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yeah.They did.

Prosecution (Morrow)

The form provided them more information?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It provided them more helpful information. [Missed a few words] indications about different, you know, clinical impressions that I might have had, as well as some free form remarks; whereas the other form was mostly free form remarks.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Sir, do you recall- I think you testified earlier that, you used some of your meetings with Pfc. Manning to talk about the days events.That you felt it was helpful to have him be intellectually stimulized [sic]-- is that correct?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

You also-- do you recall making sort of that same recommendation in a form?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I did.I-- Ithink on one of those forms I noted that he would benefit from increased intellectual stimulation, whether that was from, you know, books or, you know, whatever else that might be available at the Brig.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, do you know if the Brig ever followed up on that recommendation?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I believe that he told me that they did provide him some limited books or magazines, but they were very limited and not very stimulating-- as I remember.

Prosecution (Morrow)

-- from his perspective?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Sir, I'm gonna ask about sort of a clinical opinion as to-- certainly you would agree that reasonable minds could differ over the precautions necessary for pretrial confinement?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, even among doctors?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Absolutely.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, in some cases it might be appropriate for a detainee or pretrial confinee to be under prevention of injury status, even if the clinical opinion was that the risk of self harm was low or moderate?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Somebody can certainly, you know, reach a reasonable conclusion, that the-- the risk was greater than a clinical opinion might be.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Just one moment, sir.There are a couple of random questions.Mr. Coombs mentioned toilet paper earlier.

Are you aware of any-- you said from a clinical perspective it didn't make sense for the Brig to take away toilet paper. Are you aware of any correctional reason for someone not to have toilet paper in their cell?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yes.I mean I understand from a risk standpoint-- you know, I'll say not in-- risk precautions in general at that point I didn't think were necessary from a clinical viewpoint.

I understand that-- I mean there was a suicide within the last couple of years, where a detainee had stuffed toilet paper down his throat, and manage to asphyxiate himself that way.

Prosecution (Morrow)

So, that could have been a reasonwhy the Brig could have decided, 'Better to just keep the toilet paper outside the cell,' just--

Colonel Ricky Malone

I assume that reason for it, yes.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And finally sir, I just want to talk about Pfc. Manning transfer to the Joint Regional Confinement Facility.Do you recall-- can you tell us about that time at least? Do you recall traveling with Pfc. Manning?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I did.

Prosecution (Morrow)

And, can you describe how that came about?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I don't recall specific details. Somebody had asked if I would be available to do that-- just incase there was any--any problems along the way.

If that was an additional stressor it might provoke an anxiety attack-- that sort of thing.And, you know, I was available-- you know, I'm a flight surgeon-- you know I fly a lot anyway.

So, I did do that. And, I did it with the understanding that it was helping to alleviate the staff's anxiety as much as it might be alleviating any he might have.

Prosecution (Morrow)

So, you felt it was a good idea?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It was reasonable.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Do you recall whether that was-- you were requested to do that through the command or through trial counsel from the command?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I do not recall who requested that.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Would it surprise you if-- if it was trial counsel that had asked you do that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No. No-- because, I do remember a that time that trial counsel from MDW [Military District of Washington] was-- you know, coordinating a lot of that-- those activities.

Prosecution (Morrow)

Thank you, sir.

Judge Lind

Redirect?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes, your Honor.Sir, I want to ask you a couple questions based upon the Government's cross.You said, reasonable minds can differ on-- on medical opinions-- mental health opinions.

Colonel Ricky Malone

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

In your experience would reasonable minds differ for nine consecutive months?

Colonel Ricky Malone

They can-- certainly.

Defense (Coombs)

And what would you expect to see in that nine consecutive months or if anything to justify reasonable minds?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I am not sure I understand.

Defense (Coombs)

Well, if people are looking at the same activity-- and you had earlier testified that you didn't see anything from Manning that said he was trying to harm himself; harms others; trying to escape-- what would you expect if somebody other than you came in and had a different opinion-- in order to have a reasonable disagreement?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, I would expect it to be based on some observation of behavior or something he had said.

Defense (Coombs)

And, in this instance, would you expect to have a reasonable mind differ from you months after month if they also were seeing what you are seeing?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I can't say. There's so many things that go into--

Defense (Coombs)

--Sure.

Colonel Ricky Malone

--you know, at some point you say it's unreasonable.

Defense (Coombs)

Would there come a point?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, it depends.

You know, this is a difficult area here, where I was developing clinical opinions to the lay person, who is also placing just as much value on their own observations as what my opinion might be.

And, I realize that sometimes I am never going to convince somebody of what-- you know, they have strongly held beliefs about something, well now the interpretation or explanation on my part is going to change that.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, Captain Moore had testified about learned helplessness.Are you familiar with that term?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

What-- what is that term from your perspective?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It's a concept that a -- related to depression-- that a-- you know, somebody is in a situation where repeated efforts to improve their situation are unsuccessful.

At some point they give up.And-- or even do those things which they can do to help themselves.

Defense (Coombs)

And, do you see when someone has learned helplessness, maybe then be acted out or acting aggressive towards guards in a correctional standpoint?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Now typically its a much more passive sort of a-- so it wouldn't-- acting out would be something different.

Defense (Coombs)

What would you expect to see from learned helplessness?

Colonel Ricky Malone

You know, apathy-- withdrawal-- just total acquiescence to whatever is requested.

Defense (Coombs)

No being as talkative?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yeah.

Defense (Coombs)

Did Pfc. Manning ever express to you a desire to be out of the confinement conditions that he was in?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did he do that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, he would explain to me how he felt that some of these restrictions were unreasonable-- that they were unnecessary. And, that they just increased his level of frustration.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what would you tell him in response to that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

You know, I could agree with it from his standpoint-- that that's true.I would try to offer him different ways of looking at things.Things that he might try to change that-- realizing that he limited options, because of his confinement.

Defense (Coombs)

Thank you.

Judge Lind

Any further questions from the Government?

Prosecution (Morrow)

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Alright Colonel Malone, I have some questions for you.You said that Pfc. Manning told you that he believed his restrictions were unreasonable and unnecessary.

You began working with Doctor Hocter when Pfc. Manning first arrived in late July, early August to the Brig.Is that right?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yes, your Honor.

Judge Lind

And, then you became his treating psychiatrist in January.When did these-- when did Pfc. Manning first begin to tell you that he was frustrated with these conditions.

Colonel Ricky Malone

Probably in February-- you know, at that point that I was seeing him regularly-- [missed a few words] relationship with him.

Judge Lind

When you saw him earlier with Colonel Hocter-- Captain Hocter, excuse me-- did he voice any of those-- that he wanted to be off of the POI or maximum custody?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I don't recall.I don't think so.

Initially, he was at a higher risk, and we talked about those things.It was his thoughts and what was-- what was behind him engaging in behaviors or saying things that would make others think that he was suicidal-- as much as, you know, what precautions might have been taken.

Judge Lind

Did you know Chief Averhart?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I did.I mean he was there when I first showed up [missed two words]. And, then I-- then I had, you know, doing other forensic evaluations there over the entire year of two-- he was the-- the OIC during that time.

Judge Lind

And, during that time-- that was when Colonel Hocter was recommending that Pfc. Manning come off of POI, and Chief Averhartand the C&A board were recommending that he stay on POI.

Did you have any discussions with Chief Averhart as to why the Brig was continuing on with those precautions?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No. At that point my role was just as a consultant to Captain Hocter.So, my discussions were with him.

Judge Lind

Did you have any observations as to the rapport between Captain Hocter and Chief Averhart?

Colonel Ricky Malone

No.I never saw them interacting.

Judge Lind

With respect to Pfc. Manning, what is your understanding of-- so whether he was on maximum custody whether he is on POI or not, what restrictions were in place on POI that would be different from just being in regular MAX custody with no POI?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It was my understanding that POI entailed extra precautions, such as the suicide mattress and the smock-- those-- those sorts of things.

And, then the limitations of what he might have in his cell.And, with MAX is there is a certain amount of time in the cell-- limited time out of the cell-- and being checked on-- I think it was at least every fifteen minutes.

Judge Lind

I want to go back to your--it was in-- 423 bravo and 423 delta.

If the bailiff would please give the witness that-- that is the 21 January 2011 and 28 January 2011 forms.

I'm having a little confusion following the timeline here.As I understand it, the 18th of January was when there was an incident where-- I guess in the exercise room.

The 21st we got your form saying, 'No current suicidal thoughts or intent. Come off POI.' And, then a week later we have the second form that says, 'Remains at moderate risk,' and 'Risks and benefits of POI sort of balance out.'

What happened between the 21st and the 28th to make, I guess, your diagnosis-- your clinical assessment more in line with POI?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I don't recall.I mean that would be documented in my actual clinical notes in the medical record.I mean this is just the part that the Brig was going to see.

The medical records they didn't see. Those went straight back to medical facility.You know, that's where I typically document like what all of my clinical reasons might have been.

And, I-- I don't recall when I wrote the note is an increase over that week.I haven't seen those records since I wrote them.

Judge Lind

Where are they? Do you have any idea?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, they were maintained at the Brig, and then I believe they keep them at the-- branch clinic that was redesigned.

I was under the impression that they were suppose to go on to Leavenworth with him.

Judge Lind

You said that you took Pfc. Manning off of his meds.Do you remember when that was?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Not exactly.I mean I did-- I can see the C&A form there where by March 4th he had been off of them for some period of time and was stable.So, it was over the weeks before that.

I don't recall how long of a taper I did-- but typically that's a [missed word] too-- to they actually taper somebody off of their medications so that they don't have symptoms from-- from the withdrawal of it.

And then I would probably wait a couple of weeks to see how they were doing off of it before I would make some observations about it.

Judge Lind

Did Captain Hocter talk to you about his frustration that he believed that the Brig was not following-- was not considering his recommendation?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yes.

Judge Lind

What did he say?

Colonel Ricky Malone

What did he say?

Judge Lind

[Makes a sound in the affirmative, 'mm-hmm']

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well it was just that he was just talking about how frustrated that he was-- I-- I'm not-- I'm not sure-- he might have attributed that to just risk aversion about suicide because of the incident the year before.

Judge Lind

Were you aware that while Pfc. Manning was in Kuwait-- the records indicated that he was making nooses and saying things the doctors that, 'I am a patient man.I can wait'?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Yes, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

How could that impact your evaluation-- your point of view of how [missed a few words] as time went by?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Well, that was certainly a big consideration early on when he first arrived from Kuwait.

And, I believe even we talked about those things in my initial consultation with him.

You know, he wouldn't-- he wouldn't divorce himself from those things.He would acknowledge that, 'Yes.That's true I said things like that. And, it is always true that I can always-- suicides always an option'-- that sort of thing.

And he sort of intellectually talking about it-- not necessarily from an emotional standpoint.

Judge Lind

When you talked with Chief Barnes about other criteria that was causing her to keep Pfc. Manning on POI status, did she ever mention statements about being a patient man-- or anything of that nature when she was--

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I believe she did.

Judge Lind

Did she ever ask you your thoughts about that?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I-- I believe she did.

You know-- I mean certainly I was taking those into consideration, but to me-- I mean that is just one piece of evidence.

I'm not gonna make any single piece of evidence totally to make my decision.

So, over a period of time that I-- you know, get to know him better-- I understandmore how he thinks-- you know, how he reacts emotionally and what he is telling me-- and anything that I see over a period of time-- those become more and more important to my decision making and this other high risk information gets, you know, a little bit more in the past.

Then it become less important for my decision making.Now I think there-- and there were-- other people might think that, that piece outweighs everything else.

At some point it didn't for me.

Judge Lind

When you testified earlier that you would have out briefs with Chief Barnes when she was available, was she available more often that not when you went down to visit?

Colonel Ricky Malone

Probably half the time, I would think.

Judge Lind

And did you also talk to Chief Blenis as well-- or I mean Gunnery Sergeant Blenis?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I did.He was oneI would typically talk to as a in brief to get his observations.If he wasn't available, I'd-- I'd talk to the guards, you know, back on the unit, and see what they're offering to say.

Judge Lind

In your opinion, when you had these out briefs with Chief Barnes, who was ultimately-- would make the decision on whether Pfc. Manning would stay in maximum custody or POI status, which would be your realm.

Did you believe that those were meaningful discussions and engagements-- I mean where their questions answered?

Was she trying to probe-- you know on just the form-- on what you thought?

Colonel Ricky Malone

They were.We would have extensive discussions and I-- I would talk to her about, you know, my reasoning.

She would talk to me some about hers.I mean there were certainly times when it sort of took the flavor of she didn't really didn't like what I had written on the form, and she wanted to make sure it was-- 'I can't change your mind, but let me make sure I understand this.'

So, I would spend some time justifying it to her.

Judge Lind

Why didn't she like what was written on the form?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I think because it was-- was-- it-- it made it more difficult for her to justify her decision to keep him on POI status.

Of course that was when I said, that this is just another stressor adding to his anxiety.

Judge Lind

And, what was her response?

Colonel Ricky Malone

She wanted me to explain that to her, and I did.

Judge Lind

After you explained it, did it appear that she understood your rational?

Colonel Ricky Malone

It-- it did.I think we sort of reach a point where we would agree to disagree or, you know, acquiescence but not acceptance.

Judge Lind

Explain to me the POI-- of POI and maximum security status are adding stressors-- it appears that you were weaning Pfc. Manning off of his medication and his stressful condition was getting better.

I'm confused with what seems like a crossroads a little bit.

Colonel Ricky Malone

No--no you are correct.

So, at some point-- even in spite of these additional stressors, he reached full remission.[Missed a few words]-- I mean my point was just that-- that, it-- Okay.It makes it a little more difficult for me to do my job-- or him to improve, but not insurmountable.

I can't say what-- how much more rapidly would he have remitted had that not been a factor.I couldn't say that.

Judge Lind

I think that is all I have.Any follow up based on that?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes, your Honor.Sir, looking at appellate exhibit-- I believe its 423 delta-- you indicated there that the risk and benefits of POI are not further detrimental.

Are you saying there that POI is warranted?

Colonel Ricky Malone

I guess I worded it that way to say that looking at the risks and benefits-- it was sort of a wash.

There's always some risk-- when you take somebody off of precaution.There is always some risk.If he had a little bit of an elevation in the risk then some of that would be warranted.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did you believe that at the time that you made that recommendation that you were telling the Brig that, 'Yes, you should keep him on POI?'

Colonel Ricky Malone

No.I think at that point I was-- what I was trying to say is that-- that whatever consideration they gonna to give to the psychiatric piece to that is a wash.

So, use whatever other criteria you're going to. And you know, I made it a point to try to avoid saying, you know, 'He should be on POI,' or 'He should not be.'

To me that was a custodial status.And, my role was just to provide this one piece of input that-- that, that would be equivalent to me adhering [missed a few words]-- to [missed a few words].How much time [missed a word] I think he should get-- that's not my role. It's just to provide that one piece.

So, that I tried to limit it to that, and to be as helpful as I could-- realizing that, that is the probably the single most important piece of information that they were going to consider-- or at least I thought it should be.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Retrieving from the witness 423 delta and then 423 bravo.That is all the questions I have your Honor.

Judge Lind

Anything else from the Government?

Prosecution (Morrow)

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Alright.Colonel Malone you are physically permanently excused.I am going to ask that you leave a cell phone number with the representative from the Government, so in case we need to contact you by telephone to ask any additional questions if we do that.

Please don't discuss your testimony or knowledge of the case with anyone other than the lawyers or the accused, while the proceedings are still going on. [to defense counsel]I believe our next witness is telephonic, is that correct?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes, your Honor.So, we'll need some time to set that up, and then also just a comfort break.So, if we could, 25 after, if that works for the Court?

Judge Lind

That work for the Government?

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

Alright.Court is in recess till 25 minutes after 11.

ALL RISE

ALL RISE

Judge Lind

Please be seated.This Article 39(a) Session is called to order.Let the record reflect all parties present when the Court last recessed, are again present in Court.Are the parties ready to proceed?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes, your Honor.Defense would call [telephonic] Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Ma'am can you hear me?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, I can.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Alright Ma'am you are now before the court-martial.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Alright.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Where are you Ma'am?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I am at Building 428 McPherson Avenue, located on the Fort Leavenworth campus.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And are you able to testify freely?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, I am.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, are you alone?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, I am.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Do you have any notes with you?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I have two documents in front of me.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Do you have any notes other than the two documents defense provided you?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.I do not.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Ma'am.Should anything occur that will interfere with your testimony, would you please inform the Court?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.Of course.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Alright Ma'am.Do you swear and affirm that the statements you are about to make are the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I do.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, Ma'am for the record you are Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Thank you, Ma'am.

Defense (Coombs)

Lt. Col. Hilton, this is David Coombs.I'm gonna ask you a few questions, okay?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Okay.

Defense (Coombs)

First of all let's get some information about your background.How long have you been in the Army?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I've been in the Army since March 27, 1987.

Defense (Coombs)

And, I understand you have been in corrections since 2003?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

And you have a Masters degree in criminal justice with an emphasis in corrections?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

When did you receive your degree?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I'm sorry, when did I receive my degree?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I received my degree from Charleston State University in 2002.

Defense (Coombs)

And you're--

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I'm sorry.I correct-- 2001.Sorry.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.You are also certified through the American Corrections Association?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, I am a certified corrections manager.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when were you certified?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

My initial certification was in 2003.My recertification was in 2009.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what's involved in being certified by the ACA?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Basically, it's a study of the correctional practices within the United States.It's a review and a study of four different books periodicals printed by the American Correctional Association, and then its a 200 question multiple choice question test over the span of four hours to validate the knowledge that you received from the study of those materials.

Defense (Coombs)

When did you become the commander at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I assumed command on August 28 2010 at the JRCF, but the JRCF did not open until the 4th of October 2010.

Defense (Coombs)

And are you still in that position?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No, I am not.I changed command from that position on July 6 of 2012.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what is your current position?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Currently, I am the Inspector [missed word] General for the command for the Combined Arms Center at Kansas Fort Leavenworth.

Defense (Coombs)

On 19 April 2011 you participated in a press conference concerning the move of Pfc. Manning from the Quantico Brig to the JRCF.Do you recall that?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, I do.

Defense (Coombs)

And, where was that press conference conducted?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It was located in the Pentagon in Washington, DC.

Defense (Coombs)

When were you notified of your needed attendance of that press briefing?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Approximately two days prior.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why were you told that Pfc. Manning was being moved from Quantico to the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Why or when?I'm sorry.I can't hear you.

Defense (Coombs)

Why were you told?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Oh my goodness. This was almost two years ago. Give me a minute if you don't mind.

Defense (Coombs)

It's not a problem.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Because of the--the-- because of the capabilities of the Joint Regional Correctional Facility-- the building itself-- the facilities itself-- and the staff that we had-- located at the JRCF, would better meet his confinement requirement.

Defense (Coombs)

As part of this press conference, did the JRCF release a two page fact sheet concerning the Joint Regional Correctional Facility?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, they did.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you have a copy of that fact sheetin front of you?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Can you put a copy of that in front of you now?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I can.

Defense (Coombs)

Provided a copy of what is marked appellate exhibit 424 alpha to the Court.Can you please describe what is on the top page of the fact sheet that you are looking at?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It says, 'Photographs of the Joint Regional Correctional Facility and Area Photographs.'

Defense (Coombs)

And the first words on the top-- is it, 'For pictures and video go to www.army.mil/jrcf'?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It is.

Defense (Coombs)

Can you tell us why this fact sheet was put out to the press?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

The facility was so new to mostly if not all of the general public-- you know within the United States-- even within the military were even unaware of our facility that we just opened, and didn't quite understand the capabilities that we had inside the Joint Correctional Facility.

So this document was developed by myself in order to educate the appropriate audiences of what the Joint Regional Correction Facility was-- and what it looked like-- and the capabilities that [missed word] with that.The facility did that.

Defense (Coombs)

Was the JRCF designed to handle prolonged pretrial confinement issues?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, it was.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how so?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

We had not only the facility.We had the spatial, you know, area to segregate pretrial inmates as well as the staff to provide the services necessary for long term and pretrial incarcerations-- specifically mental health staff, medical staff-- all of the personnel supporting the Joint Regional Correctional Facility were-- are organic to the organization and worked on a daily basis inside the facility.

So, not only were we able to segregate the pretrial inmates from post trial-- as required in Army Regulation 190-47-- most importantly we have the staff there to provide the support necessary for long term pretrial incarcerations.

Defense (Coombs)

Now I wanted to talk a little bit about Pfc. Manning's move to the JRCF, and when he arrived there.But, before I do-- prior to him arriving at the JRCF did anyone direct you as to how he should be held-- the custody status for Pfc. Manning?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Have you ever been ordered during your time in corrections by anyone above you to hold somebody in particular custody status?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

As the commander of the Joint Regional Correctional Facility, no.

Defense (Coombs)

Have you ever been required to gain approval from someone above you, as the commander of the Joint Regional Correctional Facility, prior to changing the custody status of a detainee?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Why do you believe that you never had anyone above you-- either order you to hold somebody in a particular custody status or obtain approval from that person prior to you changing custody status?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

There are a couple reasons.The first and most important reason is in accordance with the Army Regulation 190-41-- the facility commander has the authority and the right to make independent decisions based upon the totality of each circumstances.

The second reason is because the Army-- Department of the Army selection board-- selected me as the commander-- the battalion commander at the Joint Regional Correctional Facility, and as such inherent rights come with that command authority.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, let's talk about Pfc. Manning when he arrived at your facility.Do you recall when that was?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

April time frame in 2010?April May of 2010.

Defense (Coombs)

I know it's been a little while, just think for one moment.Does 20 April of 2011 sound correct to you?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.It was at the very end of the month.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when he arrived at your facility, can you describe in general, what initial-- what initially happens once he arrives at the facility?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.So, once any inmate -- it's identical to every inmate-- it was no different for inmate Manning.

Once they arrive into the back gate of our facility, we conduct a strip search.We do a scars and marks.

And we give them an intensive interview with every inmate to identify any potential medical, mental health, or behavioral problems that the-- that the inmate currently or is historically experienced.

After that is done-- in the main area-- in a-- in a main areas within the reception area-- then the inmate is showered and given their property-- the inventory with the property they come with is completed. They are given all the necessary health and comfort items-- personal hygiene items and their clothing that will be issue to them. And, then they are moved into the special housing unit where they can get their reception process.

Defense (Coombs)

And, this reception processes called like the indoctrination process?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It is.We referred to it as reception, but that is exactly what it is. It's-- it's a period of time that the staff can indoctrinate inmates as to the culture, lifestyle, and interchange of the confinement center.

Defense (Coombs)

And how long does the reception process normally last?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It depends on a case by case basis on-- on the behavior of every-- of the individual inmate-- typically it went from five to fourteen days.

Defense (Coombs)

And, can you tell the Court what happens during the-- I guess the intake portion of the reception process?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

The intake-- I'm not quite sure what you mean-- the reception process is very extensive.So, do you mean-- I'm not quite what you mean?

Defense (Coombs)

The testing and assessment phase.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Okay.We have-- the assessment phase, we have most of the medical-- the physical health of an inmate and the mental health assessment of the inmate.That helps to determine both the internal and external risk so we can classify each inmate based upon their risk.

During those medical and physical health assessments, we do labs.We do blood work.And, we do an extensive screening of the inmate to make sure there is no contagious or physical health issues that could hurt not only the inmate himself, but the other inmates and staff within the facility.

The mental health assessment is conducted by mental health providers within the-- with on-- within the staff.And, thy go through the historical mental health of an inmate, the current mental health, and then any potential future mental health issues that may arise.

Once the assessment is done, at that point, the staff determines a program-- you know, that's required or necessary for each individual inmate.

Defense (Coombs)

What mental health staff do you have, or did you have when you were the commander at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Very, very extensive.I had-- we had-- in military correctional complexes-- what supports the United States disciplinary Brig and the Joint Regional Correctional Facility has one psychiatrist.He is an O-6.

And, then there are two psychologists, one of those one worked at the Joint Regional Correctional Facility-- a licensed psychologist.And then we have anywhere from three to four licensed social workers.

And, then anywhere from four to six MTA X-rays-- those are mental health technicians through the Army and the Air Force.

Defense (Coombs)

Are you familiar with DD form 2711?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Very. Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what is that form?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

That is the initial form that we used to assess an inmate internal and external risk.

Defense (Coombs)

And, after the DD 2711 is completed, what happens?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

That form goes before a board.It's called the initial classification board.On this board we have representatives from each of the specialty areas within-- inside the facility.

You have your vocational work staff.You have your chaplain.The staff judge advocate.There is a representative from each of the directorate.

And they sit at a table and then the assessment is presented in front of the board by the mental health providers, which gives an overarching review of the inmate-- both internal and external risk.

And, at that point, the discussion ensues about the inmate-- the risks and any opinions based upon those that have had the intake with the inmate.

And then the vote-- the board votes on a classification based upon the risk of where that inmate should be placed.

The board votes, and then the decision goes to the deputy commander or the Joint Regional Correctional Facility, and he approves the vote.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. And did you have access to the ACIS system?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I do not now, but I did. Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what is the ACIS system?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It's the Army Correctional Information System, and that's the database that Army correctional facilities use within the Army that holds all of an inmate's history-- and-- which includes mental and -- which includes their work assignment-- which includes their disciplinary infractions.

It includes their housing unit assignment-- their [abatement?] days.It's basically their personnel files within inside the-- the Army correctional facility.

Defense (Coombs)

As the commander-- do you know if the initial classification board considered what happened during Pfc. Manning's confinement in Kuwait?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Absolutely.A lot of the data they use on the 2711 comes from the inmate themselves.

And, they explain on the assessment form what happened.We do take into consideration prior confinement history when-- when making our assessments on the risk.

Defense (Coombs)

And, would you place a lot of significance upon for Pfc. Manning upon what happened in Kuwait?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Not specifically for Manning, because Manning-- because of his being such a long time since he was incarcerated in Kuwait.

We do look at the time lapse between the event-- you know, the incident, and when the packet goes before the board.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you know if the initial classification board considered how Pfc. Manning was held while he was at Quantico?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

We-- we looked at where he was confined, how he was confined-- but, most importantly why he was in confinement in a certain status-- because that is important to do the overall risk assessment.

Defense (Coombs)

And, you indicated that mental health professionals make a recommendation to the initial classification board, is that correct?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.There are actually-- there is a mental-- there is a-- the director of the treatment program deputy is actually over, and then the licensed social worker will sit there and present the risk assessment to the board.

Defense (Coombs)

So, you actually have a voting member of the board as a mental health professional?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

At this time, no.He was the deputy director.He's not a mental health professional.He just runs the directorate.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.Do you know what the mental health professionals' recommendation was concerning whether Pfc. Manning was a risk of self-harm?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Without pulling out the 2711, no I do not recall.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you have access to that in front of you?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I do.

Defense (Coombs)

Would that help to refresh your memory?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It would help me give details about-- I was not at the board, and so all i had access to was the 2711 itself.

I can insinuate why they made decisions or what specifically was presented-- all I can do is reiterate what is on this 2711 itself.

Defense (Coombs)

Before you--

Judge Lind

Let me just stop you for a moment, do we have a copy as an appellate exhibit?

Defense (Coombs)

We don't Ma'am, and I-- and I will avoid that issue.

Without going to that document, though, were you ever informed that mental health professionals considered Pfc. Manning a risk of self-harm at this time-- from your memory?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I know when he came into the facility-- I directed my psychologist specifically to do an assessment-- if he was going to harm himself or others.

Within 24 to 48 hours, he was not on suicide risk or suicide watch.So, at that point, no he was not a-- he was not considered a harm to himself.

Defense (Coombs)

What was--

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

--based upon her assessment of his mental health.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.Thank you.What was the initial classification board recommendation concerning how Pfc. Manning should be held at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

That he be put in medium custody.

Defense (Coombs)

Did your deputy approve the boards recommendation?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, my understanding, correct me if I am wrong, but the way it is set up is the-- the deputy actually approves or disapproves of the board's recommendation, and then you as the commander are the appellate authority, should a detainee want to appeal Mr. Callahan (sp.) decision. Correct?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct, yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, Mr. Callahan [sp.]-- just for the record-- was your deputy?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

So at this point how was Pfc. Manning being held after Mr. Callahan's [sp.] decision?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

He was held in a special housing unit with the other pretrial inmates at that time-- at that time all pretrial-- because we had a limited number-- were in a special housing unit, but he was given medium custody privileges.

Defense (Coombs)

What are the possible custody levels that a detainee can be held at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Pretrial only?

Defense (Coombs)

No.Let's go ahead and just-- all detainees.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

So, we will start with maximum custody for all the pretrial/post trial.

Inmates are placed on maximum custody and assigned special housing unit if they-- if the risk assessment warrants it-- that they have behavioral problems-- if their external or internal risk is so high that they can't go into the general population-- or if their internal risk is so high that they are going to harm-- you know, not harm themselves, but they are going to cause problems within inside the facility.Medium custody is the next level.

That custody level that most-- most inmates start out at-- unless they have a risk that's higher than-- than typical in medium custody.

And, then the final custody level is minimum custody-- which is only available for post trial inmates.And as a custody level that an inmate can achieve after anywhere from three to six months of low internal/external risk assessment as well as excellent exemplary behavior within the facility.

Defense (Coombs)

What are the possible administrative levels a detainee can be held at, at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

There is administrative segregation which has no [missed word] level, but in MAX.You have suicide watch, which is an inmate that-- that has shown tendency or is-- having a-- actively trying to harm himself.

You have administrative segregation pending investigation-- that is when an inmate-- typically violates a facility rule or infraction or is a-- athreat to others within the facility.Then you have administrative segregation awaiting final disposition.

That's an inmate that has is most time violated-- grossly violated the facility rules, and is pending a disposition, i.e. he's waiting to go to a disciplinary judge-- before he is waiting to go to a classification board.

We also have protective custody, which is an administrative segregation.Those are for inmates that need protection from other inmates within the facility and they also part of AS [administrative segregation].

Defense (Coombs)

And--

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

--and then you have [tractual?] status.A [tractual?] status are for inmates that are actively trying to harm themselves or others, and are put in a certain status to prevent-- to keep them inflicting harm.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you have a prevention of injury status at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No, we do not.From my understanding and my research it is-- it is very similar though to suicide watch, is what we have at the JRCF?

Defense (Coombs)

So, you don't have a status of something less that suicide watch?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.We do not.

Defense (Coombs)

So, someone is either on suicide watch or they are not at the JRCF, is that correct?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.There is no modified suicide watch.

Defense (Coombs)

As a commander of the JRCF, have you ever overruled a doctor's recommendation that a detainee was not a suicide risk?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Never.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you normally try to get an inmate off of suicide risk status?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Absolutely.There are second and third order effects in place on suicide watch, and explained to me by my mental health providers.

So, the goal for both suicide and in [tractual?] status is to get the inmate to a space where they are not longer trying to harm themselves, because it is-- it has an impact on their mental status.

So, my goal when I was a facility commander was anywhere from seven-- I'm sorry from 24 to 48 hours to get them off of suicide watch.We had MAX inmates on suicide watch longer than that, but normally it's a medication issue or it's a transfer issue-- we try to transfer them to a mental health hospital.

Defense (Coombs)

What was the longest that you have seen somebody that you've seen somebody from your role as a commander be held on suicide watch status?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I had an inmate on suicide watch for seven days, and the reason he was on there was because he was-- he had severe-- severe mental health issues and I was trying to get him into a state hospital.

Defense (Coombs)

So other than-- I guess did you get that person transferred to a state hospital?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.I did.

Defense (Coombs)

Other than that person, what's the longest that you've ever had a detainee held on suicide watch?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

it would be a guess, but I would say four days.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, you testified that Pfc. Manning was placed in medium custody.Is there-- and if I understand this correctly-- there is not a lower status for a pretrial confinee at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

So, Pfc. Manning was being held in the lowest possible status that he could be?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, as a medium custody status detainee, what type of mattress was Pfc. Manning provided?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

The mattress that all the other inmates in the JRCF have--

Defense (Coombs)

Did he have the [missed word]--

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

--[missed word].

Defense (Coombs)

I'm sorry go ahead.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

The same mattress that ever other inmate is provided at JRCF-- is given.

Defense (Coombs)

Did he have a normal pillow?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Normal sheets?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Normal blankets?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

In general what items would Pfc. Manning be permitted to have in his cell?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Books.For [missed two words] hygiene items, uniforms, shoes, clothing items, his legal material, writing material, and then personal photographs and letters.

Defense (Coombs)

Were detainees permitted to have radios?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

If they purchased them, yes. Receivers.

Defense (Coombs)

Right. So, just to hear music.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

And, then televisions, yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright.Was he entitled to have toilet paper in his cell?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Was he entitled to keep his prescription glasses?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

During this time-- well as a medium detainee was he ever required to surrender any of his clothing at night?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Or to wear a suicide prevention smock?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Was he required to wear handcuffs and shackles when he was outside of his cell?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why not?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Because of the written assessment when you are in medium custody-- unless you'reon a different-- unless you are like an administrative segregation pending investigation or some type of other status, the risk allows you to go within inside the facility only with no restraints.

Defense (Coombs)

Was he required to have multiple guards whenever he was outside the facility?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

He would have to have a correctional force because he was pretrial inmate and we have to keep them separate from post trial inmates that-- not necessary because of security reasons-- not because of the risk that he presented.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright.Was he required to eat his meals inside of his cell?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why not?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Because that is part of medium custody-- is you get to eat with your housing unit.

Defense (Coombs)

Was he able to buy snacks while he was at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

If they have money, yes.They can buy-- we call them gratuitous rations.If they have the money, and they put in in their account, he can buy snacks, yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what sort of snacks are available?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

They have chips on the ration sheet.Potato chips, peanuts, candy, just very small snack items that you can buy at-- at the grocery store.

Defense (Coombs)

Is he able to buy health and comfort items?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.Basic items are provided.Shampoo, soap, razors, [missed word] lotion.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what other health and comfort items could he buy then?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I don't have the-- I don't have the sheet in front of me, so I-- I know that there was like lotion-- I just honestly don't remember what's on the sheet.I'm sorry.

Defense (Coombs)

No.That's fine.let's talk a little bit about the cell unit that Pfc. Manning was in.What type of housing unit was he initially held in when he got to the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

A special housing unit.That is where we hold all of the administrative segregation inmates, and all the inmates that come into reception go in the special housing unit.

Defense (Coombs)

And, can you describe for the Court the special housing unit?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.The special housing unit is on the fact sheet that we talked about earlier during my testimony.

There are two sides of special housing unit with a total of 48 individual cells.One side of the special housing unit was-- was identified specifically for maximum custody inmates.

On the other side, you're image, which is 24 cells. These cells were held for receptee inmates-- inmates coming into-- new into the facility and for the pretrial inmates.

Within the-- within these different sides of the housing unit in the back of the housing unit, where it is two stories-- in the back of the housing unit on both the top and the bottom tier were four cells isolated from the rest of the cells.

So, you had eight cells within what we call a glass enclosure, and then the other eighteen cells were-- I'm sorry.

The fifteen cells were within in the general area.And, then Manning was in one of those enclosed glass areas, because he was pretrial and I had to keep him separate from the post trial receptees that came in on that side.

Each cell has an individual bed, toilet, sink; and meet the requirement of the American Correctional Association accreditation requirement, which is 80 square feet, 35 square feet-- unencumbered.And each cell had natural light going into it.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did the cells have natural light going into it?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

They have windows.

Defense (Coombs)

And you said each cell had 80 square feet, you said?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.At least.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so that would be at least eight by ten?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And then you said, unencumbered space.What is that?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

That's the space that is not taken by the bed, sink, or the toilet.There is nothing else in it.

Defense (Coombs)

And, you said that was at least 35 square feet?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Were there any other pretrial confinees in the housing unit that Pfc. Manning was in when he first got to the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how many?Do you recall?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No, I don't.I'm sorry.A few-- no more-- no more than eight.

Defense (Coombs)

And, was Pfc. Manning permitted to associate with these individuals?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how so?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

They would.Inside the enclosed area there was a common area with a table, treadmill, and a television.

He was allowed to sit out there with the other pretrials and watch television or play games-- cards-- whatnot, and interact.

Defense (Coombs)

So, the-- and you just answered that, I guess. The amenities that the cell would offer-- or the glass enclosed area-- if I am understanding you correctly-- there are multiple cells within that, and then there was a common area as well.

Is that correct?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

And, then what amenities were available in the common area?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

There was a treadmill-- sometimes a bicycle.We had to move that back and forth. There was a television and a table.

And, then there were-- are games available that the inmates can request to check out and play the games-- card, board games-- in the common area.

And then the shower were also in the common area. Two showers.

Defense (Coombs)

Are pretrial confinees required to stay in their individual cells-- the 80 square feet during the day?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.Again of course with the Army Correctional Association accreditation standards, they have to be given so much time out of their cell.

For pretrial inmates, they were given typically-- they were not sleeping or locked down for count-- they were allowed outside of their cell.

Defense (Coombs)

And, in general, how many hours would they be given for sleep?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

They were locked down at 22 hundred at night, and they were let out of their cell, anywhere from zero five to zero six in the morning.

Defense (Coombs)

And, I know you can't tell me the times for count for security reasons, but taking out the limited times for the count-- am I correct in saying that other than the zero six or excuse me the 22 hundred to zero five or zero five thirty, the detainee was allowed to be outside of his cell?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, you indicated there they were in no restraints once they were outside of their cell?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct. Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

How large is this common area that is outside of the cells in general?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I would say 35, 40 feet.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright.Now would you-- would you-- did you ever move Pfc. Manning from the special housing unit?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.We got so many inmates-- pretrial inmates that they could no-- we were taking up the entire special housing unit-- because I had to keep them separate, eventually I moved all pretrial inmates from the special housing unit to a general population housing unit-- kilo housing unit.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. So, that was just the pretrial confinees in the kilo housing unit?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct, yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And how much-- I guess, what-- what was the difference between the kilo housing unit as opposed to the special housing unit?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

The common area.The cells were almost identical, and the common area was much, much bigger, and there were more showers.

The common area-- I don't-- let me see if I have the dimensions here on my fact sheet-- the common area in the general population housing unites was very large compared to the special housing unit.

Defense (Coombs)

And, do you recall releasing also a PowerPoint presentation on the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, I do.

Defense (Coombs)

And, could you pull that PowerPoint presentation out?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I have it ready.

Judge Lind

Is that marked as an appellate exhibit?

Defense (Coombs)

It is Ma'am, but it's been marked as appellate exhibit 424 bravo.Now this PowerPoint presentation that you have in front of you, is it 14 pages in length?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, it is.

Defense (Coombs)

And what is on the very front of the PowerPoint presentation?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

'Joint Regional Correctional Facility' and it shows the front door and the bottom right hand corner it says 'Fort Leavenworth Campus'.

Defense (Coombs)

What was generally covered within this PowerPoint presentation?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

The capabilities.The site layout of the Joint Regional Correctional Facility. Capabilities to include the infrastructure, the structural capabilities, as well the staff support availabilities.

Defense (Coombs)

If you would, turn to page-- or slide six, which is also, I guess, page six?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I'm there.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you see the assessment division section?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what is the assessment division?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

That's what I explained earlier in the intake process.Those are the licensed clinical social workers and the mental health providers-- to include the psychologist and the psychiatrist-- this is the division that does the internal and external risk upon entry into the confinement facility, and then every follow up and subsequent assessment.

Defense (Coombs)

It also states in there, quote 'develops inmate management action plan links classification to risk assessment.' What does that mean?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

That ties to the 2711 that we discussed earlier.

On that 2711 there are points associated with confined offenses and behavior.

So they take that allow with all of their interviews and intake-- testing tools that they have with inmates, and then they present that at the inmate-- the initial classification board and then any subsequent classification board the facility may hold.

Defense (Coombs)

How many pages typically is an inmate management action plan?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It depends.It can be anywhere from two to four pages.Sometimes longer.

It really depends on the inmate and all the information relevant to that inmate that they bring with them when they are incarcerated.

Defense (Coombs)

So I guess you could have a long or a short inmate action plan?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Absolutely.You had-- you can have an inmate that has been incarcerated for a very long time, and at the annual classification board-- of the inmates been in trouble for you know numerous instances-- it could be-- because that's included in the risk assessment-- it could be numerous pages.

Defense (Coombs)

And was Pfc. Manning's action plan a long or a short one?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

it was a short one.

Defense (Coombs)

Let's look at slide 13.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

[Missed affirmative that she was on that page]

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.This slide lays out basically the daily schedule of calls for pretrial detainees. Is that correct?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

How many hours of recreation does a pretrial detainee receive each day at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It depends.There are different types of recreation.

Outdoor recreation was always one hour. Indoor recreation which can include the gymnasium, the library, the religious media room-- can be anywhere from one to four hours.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, if I'm understanding correctly, if you have a detainee receiving at least one hour of outdoor recreation, and then one to four hours, say, of indoor recreation that could include indoor gym and the libraryor something along that lines?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

Now what is library call?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

We have a library at the Joint Regional Correctional Facility that has a leisure library, a recreational library, and a legal library.

During that time, the inmates are allowed to go to the library, read material, work on their legal material, access a word processor to type their legal material.Or they can sit and read the newspaper.

And they can also check out books?

Defense (Coombs)

Can a detainee use a computer during the law library time?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It is a closed network only, but yes.They can use a computer to type documents-- legal documents to support their-- you know their case.

Defense (Coombs)

Is it possible for a detainee to request additional hours for library-- law library call, say?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.If it's very difficult-- if an inmate preparing for, you know, a legal appointment or an appeal-- we often would give them additional time inside the legal library to prepare their correspondence-- or to do their research.

Defense (Coombs)

How many hours of visitation can a pretrial detainee receive each day?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

They can get two hours a day or if approved by the deputy commander-- it can be even more.It's really the situational dependent.

Specifically if they have a family member coming from a very long distance-- typically [missed a few words] and they will be in the local area for two to three days-- we have in the past given the inmate exception to policy to do perhaps both the morning and afternoon visitation during the week.

On the weekend, four the morning-- typically two to four hours in the evening.

Defense (Coombs)

So visitation available on every day of the week at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Why do you have so many opportunities for visitation?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I-- I feel-- I felt as the facility commander that it is paramount to make sure that the bonds established before incarceration are continued, and to help the inmate through incarceration, and additionally pending release it's very, very important for inmates to re-establish and connect those relationships so when they do get released, they have a support system.

Defense (Coombs)

When an inmate or detainee has a visitor, is that visitation done in a no-contact booth?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It depends.it could be sometimes, based upon-- it goes back to their status. For medium custody inmates, specifically,no.

And if they are in good status they go into general population visitation room, and they can have visitation.

Defense (Coombs)

So, that's an open area?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, it is.It's an open area conference room type setting with tables and chairs-- with four chairs at each table that and inmate can sit with their visitors.

Defense (Coombs)

When a detainee is in a open area with their visitors, are they in any sort of restraints?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Is visitation monitored by any sort of audio equipment?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why is that?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Because in visitation has to be the time between the inmates [missed a few words] interaction between the outside and the inside-- and that is when contraband is often times passed.

It's a very high risk time during the operation of the facility.

So, we need to monitor that-- what's going on between the inmate and the visitor to make sure there's no contraband-- make sure there's no issues with security of the facility.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever receive any special requests to-- to record that Pfc. Manning was having with his visitors?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how was that request passed through to you?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It came from the Program Martial General. And, the system was in place to record the audio-- visitations of Inmate Manning.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you normal record audio of visitations?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Normally, no. In the past, have we?Yes, but not-- it wasn't typical, no.

Defense (Coombs)

During Pfc. Manning's time in confinement did he ever try to harm himself once he-- I guess was on medium custody?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Did he ever try to escape?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Did he ever try to harm any of the guards?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

To your knowledge was he ever disrespectful to any of the guards?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

During this time did he ever have any disciplinary issues?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

He had one disciplinary adjustment board.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright.And, did he have any other disciplinary issues regarding-- other than that disciplinary board?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Let's talk about the disciplinary board. What-- what happened?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Inmate Manning was in the kilo housing unit and there was a conversation between Manning and another pretrial inmate, and Inmate Manning struck the other inmate.

Defense (Coombs)

When did this occur in general?I won't pin you down on a specific date.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It was right before Christmas of December 2010?

Defense (Coombs)

2011, you mean?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.I'm sorry.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what was-- well, actually before we talk about what happened-- how did you deal with that issue?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Just like when you deal with all inmate on inmate assaults-- both the inmates are taken to the special housing unit and put in administrative segregation, pending investigations.

An investigation is conducted, and then the inmates-- if there is enough evidence the inmate sent to a disciplinary adjustment board, and then adjudication is complete, and the punishment is administered in unit.

Defense (Coombs)

Was Pfc. Manning eventually returned to medium custody?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how long after the incident?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No more than thirty days.

Defense (Coombs)

So you said he had-- well, you would go to potentially a disciplinary board.Did Pfc. Manning have one of those?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, he did.

Defense (Coombs)

And, do you recall just from your memory what the results from the board-- of the board was?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.He was found guilty and was given extra duty and disciplinary segregation time.

DS is what we call that time, where he served inside the cell, inside the cell, limited privileges for the amount time that he was adjudicated by the board.

Defense (Coombs)

And, based upon what he received-- did Pfc. Manning successfully complete his punishment?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, was he reviewed again by any classification board?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, he was-- by an unscheduled classification board?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes he was.As is typical after an inmate is involved in an altercation like that, then we send the risk assessment pack-- the packet and all of the incidence to the board to make sure that the classification that the inmate currently is in-- is still suitable.

Defense (Coombs)

And, do you recall what the determination was of the unscheduled classification board?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, that he remain in medium custody.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, were you ever briefed as the commander what happened to cause the assault on-- in that December timeframe?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, I was.I was told that another inmate and him were having a discussion. The other inmate was talking in a negative manner about Inmate Manning.He got upset and then hit the other inmate a couple times.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall whatthe conversation was about?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Something to the effect that Inmate Manning were to get a sentence at the United States Disciplinary Barracks that he would not do well in that environment.

Defense (Coombs)

Now after this incident-- you said that Pfc. Manning was eventually returned back to medium custody?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Was the other detainee still at the facility at that point?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were they housed in the same area?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you have any other problems between Pfc. Manning and the other detainee?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Was the other detainee a disciplinary problem at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

So, you had issues with that other detainee?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

As an overall detainee how would you describe Pfc. Manning?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Typical.He followed the rules.He did what he was told, and cause no correctional issues-- confinement issues or security issues within that facility.

Defense (Coombs)

Since the December incident, up until the time that you relinquished command, did Pfc. Manning have any other problems at the JRCF?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Defense (Coombs)

Lt. Col. Hilton, that is all the questions that I have for you.The Government will be asking a few questions now.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Hello, Ma'am.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Hello.Good morning.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Good morning.The JRCF is a new facility?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And it has capabilities not available at most other DoD facilities?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

So, commanders make decisions based off the resources available to them?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, part of those are custody determinations? Custody determinations are effected partly by resources available?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.Absolutely.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, custody determinations are risk assessments?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

A portion of it, yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, does risk assessments also include considerations of behavior?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, behavior would include, behavior resulting from mental health issues?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Absolutely.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, behavior resulting from mental health issues can create a basis for maximum custody?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, for board decisions mental health is important?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Very, yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, confining history is most important?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I wouldn't say most, but equally.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Guard observations are considered?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, commanders must use their judgment to balance all of them as they see fit?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, when Pfc. Manning was in processes, the JRCF followed its normal procedures?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And those procedures are governed by AR [Army Regulation] 190-47?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Not Secretary of the Navy Instructions 1640.9 Charlie?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, they use a point total?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, the initial classification determination is determined by the board?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

The classification is, yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, the JRCF deputy commander signs off on it?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, the deputy commander can override that decision?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And the deputy commander follows it most of the time, but sometime overrides it?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Absolutely.He has overridden it in my experience.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, those decisions are based on independent judgment?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, the independent judgment is part of the inherent command authority?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Absolutely.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And the inherent command authority includes things to chose the weight given to the various factor considered?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Absolutely.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, Ma'am, you wouldn't second guess other commanders confinee decisions?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Why not?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Because, there is no way to know that the entire spectrum not only the inmates, but the behavior of the facility, capabilities-- in the background of the commander-- there is no way.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, prisoner safety is critically important?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

I'm sorry I didn't hear that, can you say again?

Prosecution (VonElton)

I said, prisoner safety is critically important?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

The most important-- as well as staff.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And including-- and then part of that is protecting prisoners from self-harm?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

I'm sorry, Ma'am, I couldn't hear you.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, absolutely.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, different commanders might take different actions to protect different prisoners from self-- from self-harm?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Potentially, yes.Absolutely.

Prosecution (VonElton)

So, a commander might restrict access to gear?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

A commander might also restrict recreation?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

A commander might do both of those and other options?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

In light of what?

Prosecution (VonElton)

In light of a prisoner's circumstances and determinations the commander has made?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, Ma'am-- prisoners can use sheets and pillows for self-harm?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

And, they have in the past, yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

And, Ma'am-- prisoners can use toilet paper for self-harm?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Finally Ma'am, does the JRCF have prisoners from other branches?Like the Marines, maybe?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

When I left there was one inmate from the Air Force in post trial confinement.

Prosecution (VonElton)

Thank you, Ma'am.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

You're welcome.

Judge Lind

Redirect?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes, Ma'am.One of the trial counsel's questions said that the observations were the most important-- you said not necessarily most important.

What other things would you factor in when determining whether or not a detainee was a risk of self-harm?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It's-- it's self-admission.So it's a lot of it-- a lot about what is the inmate is saying at this time when the mental health provider is interviewing them.

So, the state of mind-- the current state of mind from what I've been told by mental health-- my mental health providers is very very critical.

So, just because there is a tendency or past documentation that this inmate has-- has inflicted self harm-- it doesn't mean necessarily that they need to be on suicide watch.It is my-- it is my experiences, numerous inmates will come into the Joint Regional Correctional Facility having tried to commit suicide or inflict self-harm.It does necessarily mean that I am gonna put him on self-harm-- on suicide watch.

Defense (Coombs)

Now I would imagine as a commander of a facility, your concerned with the potential of suicide of a detainee, correct?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you receive any sort of training on suicide prevention?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Do I or do my staff?

Defense (Coombs)

Either.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes.It's in our annual training we have.It's in our initial training that every soldier, civilian must go through before they assume duties within inside the facility-- and then an annual training requirement.

Defense (Coombs)

And, who on your staff do you trust the most in order to identify potential suicide risks?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

It's two fold.It's my mental health staff as well as the special housing unit staff-- and all the staff to identify key indicators-- or behaviors that could lead to self harm.

Defense (Coombs)

And, if a staff member identifies any sort of behavior or indicator-- are they suppose to report that to the mental health professionals?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, to operations staff or mental health providers-- and then the mental health providers will go do their stuff.

Defense (Coombs)

And, then after that I imagine that you would weigh in whatever your mental health provider advises you?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Absolutely.

Defense (Coombs)

And, you had indicated before that you had never ignored your mental health providers recommendations?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

Thank you.

Judge Lind

Lt. Col. Hilton this is Col. Lind.I'm the military judge.I have a few questions for you.Can you hear me?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

I am looking at the fact sheet that you have on 424(a)-- and you're called a Joint Regional Correctional Facility.Are all correctional facilities now regional?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

No.They are not.United States Disciplinary Barracks is a level three facility-- is not regional-- and, sister services facilities.

There is only two right now within the Army-- the Joint Regional Correctional Facility is one-- it's at [missed word] at Fort Lewis, which is regional.

They take the west coast up to the central area-- and then you have the Joint Regional Correctional Facility, which takes everything from the Midwest to the east.

Judge Lind

What is Quantico?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Quantico is a Marine Navy Facility, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

For Navy Marines facilities are the regulations that they are required to follow strictly through the Navy chain or there's some Department of Defense regulations or standards applicable to all confinement facilities?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Yes, Ma'am.There are specific DODD-- that's what I-- as I refer to them as. And, there are two primary ones that we look at.

The first one is DODD 1325.4-- and that talks about the facilities and the programs and the actual kind of confinement.

And then you have DODD Instruction 1325.7 which also talks a little about the administration-- but really focuses on the clemency of role authorities.And then of course you have Title 10 USC [United States Code].

Judge Lind

You testified earlier that you have a maximum security custody classification for pretrial detainees.if someone is in maximum custody at your facility-- what does that entail?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

That means they are in their cell for 23 hours a day--they have very little privileges and they have very little-- I guess exposure outside of their cell-- because they are an internal risk to the facility-- specifically when they go outside their cell they are always in hands ironed-- in hands-- in legs-- if they go outside the special housing unit-- within the special housing unit they are always hand ironed.

They are an increased risk within the facility and are treated as such.

Judge Lind

What type of recreation if any do they have?

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

They get one hour a day and that's normally inside of a weight room or recreational area that we have inside the special housing unit.

Judge Lind

Where does that one hour come from-- is that a Brig policy?Is that a standard?Is that--

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

That's an American Correctional Association standard.It is also outlined in Army Regulation 190-47.

Judge Lind

That's all the questions that I have.Any follow up based on that?

Defense (Coombs)

No, yourHonor.

Prosecution (VonElton)

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Lt. Col. Hilton, thank you for your testimony.

Lt. Col. Dawn Hilton

Okay, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

Are we off the phone?

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

Alright.I am looking at the time.It's 12:30.Would this be a good time to recess the Court for lunch?

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

Alright.How long would you like?An hour sufficient?

Defense (Coombs)

An hour is sufficient with the defense Ma'am.

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

Alright, so if we reconvene at 13:30.Does that work for everybody?

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Ma'am.

Defense (Coombs)

Yes, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

Alright. Court is in recess until 13:30 or 1:30pm.

ALL RISE

ALL RISE

[Court is called to order and Pfc. Manning is called to the stand by defense, and sworn in by the prosecution.]

Defense (Coombs)

Pfc. Manning I know this is a little nerve racking. So what we are going to do, is we are going to ease into this, and just take a little bit of time.Okay?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, I want to first start off by asking some questions about when you were detained in Iraq. Okay?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, do you recall the date that you were initially detained by [Army] CID?

Pfc. Manning

It was May 27 of 2010.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did CID first approach you?

Pfc. Manning

CID first came to-- well I was first in the Supply-- I was in the Supply office at the Brigade annex, which was a separate building from Brigade headquarters at FOB Hammer in Iraq, and I was-- and then, I was escorted by the Supply NCOIC [Non Commissioned Officer in Charge] to an interview room.It was a conference room that had been turned into an interview room.And, I knew that--

Defense (Coombs)

When you walked in, what did you see-- when you walked into that?

Pfc. Manning

There was a table and two CID agents and a civilian agent that was unidentified. I don't know what agency of anything.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what happened after you were brought into the room with CID?

Pfc. Manning

They gave me my rights waiver form, which I did not-- I did not waive my right to an attorney.They read through that and filled it out.

Defense (Coombs)

And, after electing not to waive your rights, then what happened?

Pfc. Manning

They left. So, I sat in there for about an hour and a half, and then they came into-- they returned with brown paper bags with all of my belongings from the CHU [Compartmentalized Housing Unit] that were electronic-- and they had that outside the interview room.So, the interview room [missed a few words].

Defense (Coombs)

When you say CHU that is your living quarters?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, the Compartmentalized Housing Unit at FOB Hammer.

Defense (Coombs)

And, after this time period, were you required to be escorted, where ever you went?

Pfc. Manning

I was required to be escorted everywhere I went except for in the shower at the-- whenever I went into the shower trailer.They had-- I wouldn't have somebody there at all times for that.So, I had some privacy.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. And, did you at that point realize you were in pretrial confinement?

Pfc. Manning

I did not sir, no.

Defense (Coombs)

When did you first realize that you were actually were in pretrial confinement?

Pfc. Manning

It was a few days later.I think it was two or three days later when I was transferred to-- we went to-- I was escorted, along with the prosecution to Camp Victory[BFIF?] in Iraq to I think it was Camp Liberty, where we had our pretrial confinement hearing.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Did you recall the date of your pretrial confinement hearing?

Pfc. Manning

I don't remember the exact date.I think it was the night of the 29th or the 30th of May 2010, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, where-- I guess-- what happened at this hearing once you had the pretrial confinement hearing?

Pfc. Manning

Well I was-- we argued our points but I was placed-- but, I continued to be placed by the magistrate into pretrial confinement, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, after the pretrial confinement hearing was completed, where were you taken?

Pfc. Manning

I was taken-- we-- we had two escorts from my unit.They were from my company.We transferred to Camp Arifjan overnight.So, it took about 24 hours in transit.It's the logistics of being downrange.It took a while to get there, but we finally-- I finally arrived at Camp Arifjan in Kuwait.

Defense (Coombs)

And where were you held when you first arrived at Camp Arifjan?

Pfc. Manning

After an initial intake at the trailer, I was brought to a tent building hybrid. And, inside of it, there were two cage like cells.And, there is where I was held for the first 72 hours, I believe, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, can you describe the area.So, it was a tent, and there were two cells inside of it?

Pfc. Manning

There were two cage like contraptions that-- they were about eight by eight by, maybe, another eight cubed.So, it is a cube, and there is a rack and a toilet in there.

Defense (Coombs)

When you say rack, a bed?

Pfc. Manning

Right. The Navy calls their beds racks. So, that was where I slept.

Defense (Coombs)

So, there were two of these in this tent.Was there anyone else held in the other cell?

Pfc. Manning

Nobody was in the other cell, cage. I don't know what to call it, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. And, during the time that you were there.You said that you were held there for about 72 hours?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. It was a-- their indoctrination period.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what were you doing, during those 72 hours?

Pfc. Manning

I had-- I had their 'Manual for Guidance of Inmates' which is just basically their booklet on all the rules and what is expected of me at the facility.

And, I read through that, and it was pretty much the only thing I really could do. I mean, I had sheet and a pillow, and some blankets, and some changes of uniform, and some toiletry items, but I just stayed in there, except for going to chow.

Defense (Coombs)

Where you allowed to speak to anyone when you were in the 72 hour hold?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir, I was not.

Defense (Coombs)

Where you allowed to make any phone calls?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir I was not.Well, I did interact briefly with the guards as they gave me meals.They brought the meals to my cell.

Defense (Coombs)

Where did you go to after this 72 hours?

Pfc. Manning

They brought me to-- it was a tent with the other pretrial detainees that were at Camp Arifjan, and that's were I stayed during the day time [missed a word], and I slept at night.

Defense (Coombs)

And, before you were transferred to this other tent, we will talk about your conditions there, do you recall collapsing in your cell in the-- during that 72 period?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. I don't remember if it was the second day I was there or not, but—and, I don't recall who exactly was there, but the lights weren't on—and, the air conditioning system was not working inside the tent, so it was hot in there.

It was dark.They had a door.So, it was still a tent, but it had a physical door that was built into it—and, two figures came in.

They started talking to me.I could not really understand what they were saying, and then I just faded out, and the next thing I knew I had the Navy corpsmen, you know, 'Are you okay?' He was asking me if I was okay, and I said , 'Yes.' I think I was just dehydrated, cause, you know, it was hot in there.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Now, when you got transferred to the general population tent.Can you describe that for Colonel Lind [the Judge]?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, it is a twenty-man tent.So, it is roughly the size of the-- maybe twice the size of the panel area [in the Courtroom].So, not horribly huge, but enough for twenty men-- for twenty soldiers to live in, you know.And they had bunks inside of there-- maybe eight bunks.So, they were standard barracks bunks, metal bunks, and that is what--

Defense (Coombs)

So, you weren't in a cell, you got put into the tent?

Pfc. Manning

Correct. It was an open bay area.It was still a tent, but like an open bay area.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you were transferred there, how many detainees where in that open bay tent?

Pfc. Manning

There were usually between three to six there, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what time would you start your day when you were in that open bay tent?

Pfc. Manning

We-- Reveille which they called--The wake up call was reveille-- They called 'reveille' at 22 hundred, so at the-- right after sunset we were woken up, and we were-- that is whenever our day started.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so if I am understanding correctly.You were not on a normal day/night schedule, you--

Pfc. Manning

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

--your day started at 22 hundred hours?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

When did your day end?

Pfc. Manning

Our day ended at, I believe, it was at 13 or 14 hundred the proceeding day.

Defense (Coombs)

And what would you do on a typical day?

Pfc. Manning

Normally, we would-- first have a brief recreation call, exercise call, which we could walk around outside.There was a track area that was around-- in between the double fences of the facility.

And, then we would go to chow. We had a be back to the giant facility tent.We would be escorted to the dining facility tent, and we would stay there.And, then we stayed in a recreation tent for other times-- other lengthy time periods.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you are-- when you are in the recreation tent what could you do?

Pfc. Manning

There was a TV set, an old CRT TV set.There was a VHS player, and some library books, and a lot of old VHS tapes.

Defense (Coombs)

How many hours out of the day would you be in the tent, excluding the hours that you were sleeping?

Pfc. Manning

Excluding the hours that I was sleeping, we would either spend between four and ten hours inside of that tent. Although other times we spent, where if we weren't in-- we spent time in there. The reason why there is quite a large discrepancy is because there's a-- rec [recreation] we would spend time in the recreation tent or with the TV.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. So, during this time, were you able to call anyone?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. We had limited phone privileges that were early in our day-- so early in-- in the middle of the night, so around afternoon stateside time.So, we could-- it worked for most people to be able to call their families and things.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were you able to call your family?

Pfc. Manning

I didn't have a lot of phone numbers, so.I had my aunt's phone number.That is one.I memorized that.So, I called.So, yes.I did call family, or, I called, in particular, my aunt.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did it feel to be able to speak to a family member?

Pfc. Manning

It felt really good to finally reconnect with somebody.It had been nine days, I think, that I had no contact with family at that point.

And, it was good to know that I wasn't fully cut off from the world, for at least those ten to fifteen minutes that we were authorized for that phone call-- for those phone calls.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you also able to speak with legal counsel for this time?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. We had attorney phone calls that would be scheduled by our-- by the TDS [Trial Defense Service] counsel. And, those were every-- I mean, they had a special area for those phone-- for those phone calls, but the TDS counsel I had didn't really call a lot, at that time.

Defense (Coombs)

Did there come a time when you were removed from the open bay tent back to a segregated tent?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I remember-- I think about two weeks into-- maybe a little bit less-- might have been actually just one week of being there.

I was put back into, and I stayed in the segregated-- the tent-- the tent with the cages and cells where I [missed a few words] again.

Defense (Coombs)

So, that would be roughly around the middle of June you think?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. So I would guess between the 14 and 18 June, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did they tell you why you were being removed to the administrative segregation tent?

Pfc. Manning

I don't-- I don't remember exactly what the reasons were, sir.I don't know, if you have anything to remind me.

Defense (Coombs)

No. I don't have any documentation of that.So, can you describe the cell that you were moved to?

Pfc. Manning

It was the same cell that I was in for the reception time period, except I was able-- So I had my sheets, blanket, and changes of clothes, hygiene items, et cetera.

So, this is the same unit, but I would go out as I was-- I was just separated from everybody else during the time period in which they were in the tents.So, I still went to the recreation tent. I still went to the dining facility tent, et cetera.

Defense (Coombs)

So, even though you were held in the 'admin seg' tent you still went to the dining facility with the other pretrial confinees?You still went to recreation with other pretrial confinees?

Pfc. Manning

That is correct, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Was anyone else in the cell with you at this time?

Pfc. Manning

No. There was another cell adjacent to it.But, nobody was in it, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what were you allowed to have within your cell?

Pfc. Manning

Again, it was sheets, pillow, pillow case, my uniform, so a couple changes of clothes, some books that I checked out of the library, and, yeah, that was—So, most of the items that I was authorized to have I kept inside the cell.

Defense (Coombs)

Where was this cell-- this admin segregation tent cell in relation to the tent that you were held at, with the open bay?

Pfc. Manning

It was approximately, I would say, eight or ten meters away, with a partition fence.

Defense (Coombs)

So, within close proximity to where you were previously held?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, can you describe for Colonel Lind, your typical day, once you were in this admin seg tent?

Pfc. Manning

It was almost identical to the one before, except instead of spending time in the open bay tent with the bunks.I would spend that time in my segregations cell.

Defense (Coombs)

How many hours a day do you think you were held in your segregation cell by yourself?

Pfc. Manning

Again, for four to eight.So that same time period, where I was in the open bay tent, transferred over into being in that other tent.

Defense (Coombs)

How did being held separately from everyone else impact you?

Pfc. Manning

I didn't talk to people as much-- I mean it was only during the recreation calls and things.So, yeah—And, spending that time alone-- I mean, it was such a-- I didn't know what was going on and, you know, in terms of the case or anything like that.I didn't have, like, formal charges or anything.

Really didn't know what was going on, or anything like that.So, I was really limited in my interactions with anybody.So, it was a little draining.

It was actually very draining.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how were you-- were you sleeping much during this time period?

Pfc. Manning

No. It was-- my nights were my days, and my days were my nights, so it all blended together after a couple days.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, during the deployment you also worked on the night shift is that true?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, I did sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you have problems sleeping during the deployment?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, I did sir, and I brought that to the attention of the NCOIC [Non Commissioned Officer in Charge] quite often.

Defense (Coombs)

So, the combination of not really getting a lot of sleep, and then the stress of just being in the cell by yourself, can you tell Colonel Lind how that was impacting you?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean, I am generally a pretty social and extroverted person, but, you know, was sort of put in that role of just sort of being there for long periods of time by myself.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you still able to make phone calls when you were in the admin seg tent?

Pfc. Manning

No. A few-- I think, because I-- I made-- I made, I think, three phone calls successfully.

One was to my aunt, because that was the only phone number that I really had. And, I think I made two-- I think I made one successful phone call to the only other number that I knew-- was for my-- the person I was in a relationship with previously, Tyler Watkins.

I talked to him.But those phone privileges were removed shortly after my first three phone calls. So I lost that privilege, I don't know why.

It was never explained to me.But, I lost that privilege pretty quickly.

Defense (Coombs)

Without having the ability to call family or call somebody that you were dating at the time, how did that impact you?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I don't know if we were dating.I don't know what the status was at that time for the relationship.But, you know, I was in pretty stressful situation. Not really-- I had really no idea what was going on with anything.

And, you know, I was getting very little information from Captain Bouchard, the defense attorney that was assigned at the time, because, he did have a lot of information either.So-- And that became sort of my only conduit, the one person that I really got any information from.

Because, at Camp Arifjan, they don't allow like news or-- they don't have any TV. Like the TV was separate. They didn't allow radio.So, you didn't get any current events information.It was just a contained environment.

Defense (Coombs)

Did there come a time when you were no longer taken out of your cell for the rec hall [recreation hall] and to eat?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. There was.

Defense (Coombs)

And when was this?

Pfc. Manning

I don't recall the dates.I started to really deteriorate in terms of my awareness of my surroundings and what was going on.I was more insular.More worried about--just being anxious all the time about not knowing anything, and being worried. You know-- days turned to nights. Nights turned-- I mean everything blended together, and, just sort of just became more insular, and, I just sort of lived inside my head.

Defense (Coombs)

Where were you receiving your chow at this point?

Pfc. Manning

It was given to me through-- I was staying inside the administrative cell.So, back in the cage, and then they would give it to me just as before, whenever I was in the reception cells.

Defense (Coombs)

Did anyone ever explain to you why you were no longer being taken out of your cell to be with the other detainees?

Pfc. Manning

I didn't have a full-- really good understanding of the reasons.I think if somebody had-- I think somebody tried to explain it to me, but again I was just a mess at that point.I was really starting to fall apart.

Defense (Coombs)

During this time did the guards start inspecting your cell?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. They-- They went through-- They called it a 'shakedown'.It was pretty-- It was-- I mean it got to the point where they almost did it two to three times a day, where they would go in.

They would take me out of the cell, and have me sit down facing away from the cell. And then, they would just tear apart the-- at all the limited stuff that I had in the cell.Just throwing it everywhere.I don't know if they were searching for anything or if they were looking for anything, but it would definitely look looked through.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Now, on June 30th 2010, do you recall losing control of yourself on that day to the point that medical doctors, mental health professionals had to intervene?

Pfc. Manning

Very limited-- memory of that.Very vague.I just remember being told about that mostly.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall yelling uncontrollably, screaming, shaking, babbling, banging your head against your cell and mumbling?

Pfc. Manning

Those details, no.But, I knew that I had-- I had just fallen apart.I mean I-- everything is fogging and hazy from that time period.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall why that happened at all?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean-- I usually know what is going on.I usually have a pretty solid knowledge of what's going on and I can figure things out-- like in terms of, you know, my--like-- like my job, or, you know, my family.I usually-- current events that are going on.

I am usually grounded pretty firmly in, like how I connect to the rest of the world, in those things.

So, after having those cut off, I really started to just not really get anything. I just started living inside my-- the limited surroundings that I had.

My world just shrunk to just Camp Arifjan, and then to that cage.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did you see any documentation at that point to know that what you experienced apparently was a breakdown or an anxiety attack?

Pfc. Manning

What is that, sir?

Defense (Coombs)

Did anyone show you anything?Or, did anyone talk to you later-- a mental health professional-- to explain what you experienced there was a breakdown or an anxiety attack?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I talked very frequently with mental health professionals-- both at the Camp Arifjan Hospital.They didn't have a full time psychiatrist or psychologist at Camp Arifjan itself.They had a medical doctor, a flight surgeon I think, sir.

And-- but I spoke pretty frequently with them.It was Lt. Commander Weber and Captain Richardson at Camp Arifjan Hospital and Mental Clinic.So, they are [missed end of phrase].

Defense (Coombs)

And, do you recall during this time making a noose out of bed sheets?

Pfc. Manning

Vaguely. I mean I just-- I remember-- I mean I don't remember that particular-- I remember being taken out, and them finding that.

I just remember my stuff being all over the place.Because, after they started doing the 'shakedowns', I stopped-- I stopped making my bed and things, you know.

Because, it was getting-- they were just tearing up all my stuff up all the time anyway. So, I don't recall making it, but I remember thinking, you know, 'I am gonna die.I am stuck here in this cage, and I don't know what is going to happen.'

Like, I mean, I thought I was gonna die in that cage, and that is how I saw it. It's like an animal cage.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you, at that point, plan on doing anything, taking your own life?

Pfc. Manning

I certainly contemplated it.I didn't.I mean it was sort of futile at the same time.I felt at the time there was no means.Even if I made a noose-- I mean, there wasn't anything I could do with it.I mean, there wasn't anything to hang it on, like.So, it just felt pointless.

Defense (Coombs)

After 30 June and having the breakdown, and then finding this material in your cell what happened?

Pfc. Manning

They took me out of that cell, and they moved me to the cell next to it.

They removed some of my clothing, and then they gave me a smock.They took away my glasses and everything.So, I had-- So, they put me into the cell adjacent to, but, I was-- they placed me on suicide watch at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how long were you held in this cell?

Pfc. Manning

I believe thirty days with I believe a brief break for maintenance thing.

I don't remember the timing of that.But, I spent the rest of the time at Camp Arifjan inside the cell.

Defense (Coombs)

So, up until they time that they took you to Quantico?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

During this time, did you ever recall every speaking with Dr. Richardson?

Pfc. Manning

Captain Richardson?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes.

Pfc. Manning

Yes. He was a psychiatrist.I spoke to him on occasion.I don't know how often.A lot of the early time frame of early July is a total blur.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why is that?

Pfc. Manning

I had pretty much just given up.I mean, I did not know what was going on.And, nobody was gonna tell me anything.

And, you know, I remember I had limited contact with Captain.

I still had attorney phone calls, but I had like three Navy personnel that would sit around me while I was making these phone calls.And, we did not feel comfortable talking to each other over the phone about anything to do with what little Captain--

Defense (Coombs)

Bouchard?

Pfc. Manning

--Captain Bouchard knew about the case, because he did not know a lot at that time.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall telling Captain Richardson that you were considering committing suicide?

Pfc. Manning

I don't know how I conveyed it to him, but I explained what I did-- something similar to what I had just explained before.That, you know, I had contemplated it, and, you know, it was-- but, it also seemed pointless at the same time.

I was uncertain.I didn't want to.I didn't-- I didn't want to die.I just wanted to get out of that cage.I just remember being trapped on that cage, like all the time.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall telling him, that if you believe that you could be successful--

Prosecution (Fein)

Objection, your Honor. Leading their witness, the accused.

Defense (Coombs)

If I could finish my question?

Judge Lind

I am going to allow it for now.Go ahead.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall telling Dr. Richardson, that if you could be successful in committing suicide, you would?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I don't know how-- I don't know how I conveyed that to him, but I did.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why were you feeling that way?

Pfc. Manning

It just felt.I just pretty much had given up on a lot of things.

I mean I just remember that my world had just shrunk.It had just shrunk to this-- to this eight by eight sort of metal cell, and I didn't know what time of day it was or anything else.

That was sort of what I was trapped in.

Defense (Coombs)

Did Dr. Richardson give you anything to help you with how you were feeling?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. He gave me some medication. I know it was.It was an SSRI [Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor].

I don't remember if it was Celexa or Zoloft.And, then a 'benzo'.I don't recall exactly what it was-- whether it was clonazepam or something similar.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how were you--

Pfc. Manning

--or Ativan.

Defense (Coombs)

How did this medication impact you?

Pfc. Manning

Whenever I take SSRI's-- cause I have taken them before, I have side effects.

So, I have nose bleeds, nausea for the first couple days.So I remember that.

I remember being very-- I wasn't given the full dosage for Celexa immediately.I was given a half-- I was given a half dosage for the first week, just to sort of curb on those initial side effects, and a urinary issues.

Defense (Coombs)

Did the medication that you were receiving, the Celexa or the other medication--

Pfc. Manning

--It was an SSRI, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--did that help you?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I mean, I started to flatten out by about two weeks-- maybe two weeks.I don't remember the number of days.It all just came together.But, halfway through that time period.

Defense (Coombs)

And, you say flatten out?What do you mean by that?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I wasn't nearly as anxious.I was talking to the guards that were watching me, and just sort of-- I felt better at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

By, 29 July of 2010, the date that you were moved from Kuwait and arrived to Quantico, how were you feeling?

Pfc. Manning

By 29 July?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes.

Pfc. Manning

I was feeling better.I was, you know-- felt more stable in terms of-- I meanI know I am in-- I know I am stuck here, you know.I don't know what is going to happen or what is going to go on at this point, but, you know, I figured I would ride it out, whatever it is.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you know what happened-- actually, let's go to the date that you were removed from your cell in Kuwait.When they took you out of your cell, did you know where you were going?

Pfc. Manning

I had no idea where I was going.I knew that I was leaving the facility.

Defense (Coombs)

How did you know that?

Pfc. Manning

They had briefed me.And, when I say they, I mean the corrections staff.

I don't remember who it was.I think it might have been-- I think it might have been the-- it might have been the executive officer.

I think it was Lt. [Commander? Bar?]-- might have been, but I think it was also-- I think it was an enlisted-- a senior enlisted person, sir-- maybe Master Chief or the Chief at the time-- and, basically said-- said, 'You're being transferred to a different facility.We are not gonna,' you know, 'That is all the information we have.'

And, then I started gathering my things in the cell.Cause they kept all my belongings in the cell next to me, but I was authorized to have them.They started inventorying that.

Defense (Coombs)

Describe that day for Colonel Lind.Like what happened once they got done inventorying, and you were being escorted out?

Pfc. Manning

It was almost sundown.Cause I remember the door was open to the tent.And, they inventoried my belongings.And, I was there present.They gave me-- They took away the smock and they gave me clothing.

And, then they brought me to the front of the facility where they had transfer to the medical staff.

I had a full physical done, and I filled out some-- I filled out some paperwork for receiving my [blinds?].

And, by this time it was dark, so I left the-- so, I left the facility, and it was probably about zero one in the night.

Defense (Coombs)

And, where were you taken?

Pfc. Manning

I was taken to a convoy of vehicles to Kuwait City to the airport at Kuwait City.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at this point did you know where you were going to be going?

Pfc. Manning

I had no idea.I only speculated to where I was going.I mean, I didn't know if I was going-- I didn't think I was going anywhere CONUS [Continental United States].I thought I was going to another-- I was hoping Germany-- Mannheim, Germany was a possible option.

Defense (Coombs)

Why were you hoping that?

Pfc. Manning

Well, it is not the alternatives which I speculated on at that time-- which was like Guantanamo Bay, Cuba or Djibouti or some place, you know, outside of the United States.

Defense (Coombs)

Why were you thinking that you might be taken to some of those places?

Pfc. Manning

I don't know.It was just a-- there was this-- I had been conveyed some serious charges, but I didn't really have a lot of guidance legally with Captain Bouchard, because of the limitations of the telephonic-- and having the guards there listening in-- so I just speculated and guessed.

I mean, I have worked-- I don't know-- I did not know how the American detention worked for, you know, American confinees.I knew for other detainees, but not for me-- not like soldiers for court-martial.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you scared what might happen to you?

Pfc. Manning

Certainly. I was very scared, but again I had no idea.

Defense (Coombs)

So, when you arrive at Kuwait City, what happens then?

Pfc. Manning

They brought me to a holding area at the facility.They removed a TV physically from that holding area, and I sat there for about eight hours until we got on a charter plane to, I believe-- We got on the plane--

Defense (Coombs)

When you got on the plane did you know where you were going?

Pfc. Manning

I did not, sir.I still had no idea where I was going-- but I was slightly more-- I was suddenly comforted by the fact it was a charter plane.So, it was a commercial airliner that was-- there was military personnel being moved somewhere.

Defense (Coombs)

Did the captain of the plane make any comments?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. The captain went over-- That was how I knew where I was going.The captain went over the intercom and said, you know, 'Flight time is this. We will be arriving at Mannheim, Germany,' you know, 'in the next however many hours--flight,' you know, 'altitude.'So, that is how I managed to figure out where I was going, in terms of that stage of the transportation process.

Defense (Coombs)

And, once you arrived in Germany, what happened?

Pfc. Manning

Again, I was taken to another holding area.Again, I speculated where I was going, not knowing.They removed me completely from the plane. I was in full restraints.I was a detainee.Although, I was still in Army ACU's [Army Combat Uniform]. And, then I was held in one of the terminals in Mannheim, and I think it was at Mannheim.It was Germany.

And, then sat there for aboutan hour and a half, and then we got back onto the plane.It was the same plane we were on before, and the same seating area.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at this point, did you know where you were going?

Pfc. Manning

Again, I found out the same way.It was a different captain, but he said, you know "Flight time.We should be arriving at Baltimore Washington International Airport,' you know, so.I knew I was going CONUS at that point, which was-- at least I was hoping that we were just going to stay CONUS.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how were you feeling at that point when you knew that you were going to be going to the States?

Pfc. Manning

I felt a lot better.I mean, I didn't think I was going to set foot on American soil for a long time, so.I was elated.

As silly as it sounds, it felt a lot better, knowing that at least I am going to be-- And, you know, I know Baltimore Washington International Airport.

So we actually landed and went through customs just like-- obviously for the soldier portion-- for the charter area-- but, went through customs just filling out the same-- filled out the same paperwork, you know, transferred through.

So, it was great to be in familiar surroundings-- American soil-- BWI [Baltimore Washington International Airport].

Defense (Coombs)

And, where did you go once you got-- from BWI?

Pfc. Manning

They got a rental car.So, I was in a holding area.So, they transported me very quickly into the vehicle through the terminal, into the parking or into the bay area.

Just got into a Dodge Charger-- I think it was a Charger.

Defense (Coombs)

A van?

Pfc. Manning

No, it was a Charger.

Defense (Coombs)

Oh, and actual car?

Pfc. Manning

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. And then, where were you taken?

Pfc. Manning

We drove South.And, I eventually figured out from the-- they had Google Maps-- a print out of the directions to Quantico. So, I knew then that was the destination.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so we're now going to talk about your arrival at Quantico.Before I go in there, do you need a break or are you okay?

Pfc. Manning

I am good, Sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. What time did you get to Quantico.

Pfc. Manning

I don't know the exact time.It was early evening.So, maybe about 6 p.m.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at this point how long had you been awake?

Pfc. Manning

Over 24 hours with-- I slept for maybe 90 minutes on the plane from Germany to BWI.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why did you sleep so little on the plane?

Pfc. Manning

It was difficult.There were restraints and I was-- I was being-- it wasn't comfortable positions. It was a coach type seat with full restraints-- so, a body cuff.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, when you got to Quantico, can you tell Colonel Lind what happens?

Pfc. Manning

Taken to their in processing area-- so through the side of the facility they have an in processing area for detainees.I was transferred administratively, in terms of paperwork.

Taken to the changing area, where I was strip searched-- scars, marks, tattoos is what they normally do.They take notations of that.

They had signs with Marine Corps rank.And, I was--I had Marine Corps correctional specialists working. They were doing the strip search and everything-- explaining to me-- well not really explaining-- but telling me what to do at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

So, after you got through this, what did the guards say to you?

Pfc. Manning

What did they say to me?I mean-- I mean it's-- it's-- they are ordering me to do things.So, I fill out paperwork mostly.

I was taken to a dark area-- or a dark room next door, and then I have then Corporal Hanks, you know, ask me a bunch of question-- like administrative information, suicide risk questions, et cetera, and filled out paperwork.

And, I spent several hours filling out paperwork.

Defense (Coombs)

At that point, did you-- once you were filling out paperwork-- did you respond to any questions from the actual guards?

Pfc. Manning

Well, yes. That is what they were doing. They-- I was-- They would ask me questions, like, 'Do you have any psychological disorders?' or 'What's your address?' 'What is your name?' Things like that, so.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were they telling you whether or not you were getting any of these answers wrong or right?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, I mean, because it's a-- whenever you-- in processing into the Marines Corps facility.And, I assume that every correctional facility I have been to, it is a sort of a 'shark attack' basic training-- called a 'shark attack' environment where you're-- everything you do is wrong.They are trying to build you up from, you know, they try to show you who, you know-- that they are the ones that are in charge.So they-- you know, they tell you what to do.

I mean, I don't know what a bulk-- I didn't know what a bulkhead was, and they told me to face the bulkhead, 'Okay,'I felt,'I don't know what a bulkhead is.'

'Face the bulkhead!' and I learned like Navy terms as well, and Marine Corps rank and things like that.And everything I did was wrong at that point, you know, in terms of-- I got rank wrong, and I got all kinds of things wrong,because I didn't know, so--

Defense (Coombs)

Alright--

Pfc. Manning

--I was learning.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall ever writing down, 'Always planning, but never acting' on your intake questionnaire with regards to a question of suicide?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. They-- There was a lot of questions that-- I was swarmed with all the paperwork, and they were-- most of it was verbal.

So, I said to the suicide questions both times I said, 'No. Not suicidal.'You know, but they would ask me questions like, 'Well why were you on suicide-- Why were you on Suicide Watch then?'

It was, you know-- It was-- They would ask a question and then would sometimes say I was wrong, you know, in terms of like my address, and not giving them the Zip Code, 'Are you going to give us the Zip Code?'

I mean, and that was sort of the vibe that I got through that, and asking questions.

And, it was the same with paperwork.I filled out the paperwork, and it was a page at a time.

So, I would fill out one page, and then they would-- and then I would have-- I think it was-- it was then Corporal Hanks, later Sergeant Hanks that filled out or that examined the paperwork, and so I would have to cross things out, because it was wrong, or, you know, or not what they were expecting in terms of the dates, you know, they have their dates different.

And, when I came to that question, they said that, you know, because I was on suicide watch, I had to put something down on that.So, I did.

I wasn't thinking to much about what I was putting down, but, you know, I put it down, and I regret it.

But, it was sort of sarcastic, because I had spent so much time on suicide watch in Kuwait.I didn't really-- and I had been told by Master Sergeant Papakie, who briefed me, for a brief period of time that I was going to be on suicide watch, whenever I was finished, so.

So, that is what I filled out-- the paperwork.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Now, were you eventually moved to a cell?

Pfc. Manning

Later, but I-- I went and talked to Captain Hocter first.That was the first time that I had met Captain Hocter.

They took me to an office, one of the medical offices, and I spoke with him for about an hour and a half.

And, then I returned to filling out paperwork, but then they moved me to the cell.

It was already past lights out, or 'taps' as they call it at the Brig.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what time would that normally be?

Pfc. Manning

It was 22 hundred, sir.So, it was past 22 hundred, but I was still filling out paperwork, and again it was very similar.

I would have one sheet of paper examined by the guard, and looked over for any mistakes or anything.

I just wanted-- at that point I just wanted-- I think they offered a shower, but I just wanted to go to sleep, because I hadn't slept in so many hours.

I had been in transit for the last almost two days-- it felt like, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so overall, even though being tired, how did you feel about being at Quantico, and being in the United States?

Pfc. Manning

Oh, it was great, because-- I mean-- I mean I know it is not the ideal environment, but it is a-- it is a brick and mortar building.

It's got air conditioning.It's got solid floors, hot and cold running water.

I mean a lot of amenities that I wasn't use to for that period of time-- for quite a lengthy period of time.So I felt--And, it was great to be on continental United States soil.

It was-- that felt like reassurance, especially being in the DC/Baltimore, Northern Virginia area.I live in Maryland, and so I knew the area as well, and I knew that family could visit, and I had been told that my family could visit.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you get a visit from your company commander at this point?

Pfc. Manning

That was the following morning.

Defense (Coombs)

And, who was this?

Pfc. Manning

Captain Casamatta.This was my company commander at the time, and I had-- I didn't know that they had actually PCS [Permanent Change of Station ] move me to the Military District of Washington.

So, then I was introduced to my new company commander, First Sergeant--Captain Casamatta, and First Sergeant Williams.

They came to me the next day.It was great to talk to them, because I got a run down of a lot of things I didn't know in terms of PCS move and, you know, where my belongings were, and what chain of command I fall under and everything else.

So, I got a lot explained to me in that time period.I felt reassured that I had such an awesome, you know, company commander-- was a very reassuring feeling, you now, from being in a-- and I know it sounds silly, you know, but, even though it was Quantico Base Brig-- it's a prison, but, you know, but it was just a permanent structure, at that time.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, and I imagine once you are at Quantico, where you able to see family member?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I mean there was an indoctrination period.

So, I was given a booklet on what rules and regulations I was-- even though I was-- I was on suicide risk status at that time, but they allowed an exception.

They allowed my aunt to come and visit me.That was the first time I had seen family members.

Defense (Coombs)

Where you able to meet with defense counsel?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I had been assigned at that time, Major Hurley as temporary defense counsel.

Just for the transition period, so I spoke to him a few days after-- if not the immediately following my command visit.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what sort of status were you on at this point?

Pfc. Manning

I was placed on-- and I was told when I arrived there, that I was going to be on the same status as I was in Kuwait, suicide risk status, and that I would be evaluated, and then I would have, you know, a classification set in a few days.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you told what custody status? Maximum?Medium?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean, if you are on--if you are on POI [Prevention of Injury] or MAX-- I was on MAX.If you are on suicide risk status, you are automatically placed on MAX status, so.I was automatic, so.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. And, let's talk about some of the-- for a moment-- what it meant to be on maximum custody status for you? Okay? How often, where you required to be physically checked?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I had line of sight.So, there was a guard-- this is just a--

Defense (Coombs)

Just for MAX.We will talk about the suicide [risk] in a moment?

Pfc. Manning

Oh. For MAX status, the facility-- the Quantico Base Brig MAX status, I believe was, I believe either ten minutes or five minutes for MAX status.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how were you checked when you were on MAX status?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I was checked more frequently, because my statuses were-- because I had an additional status added on to-- a part from the classification with it.

I guess if you calculated, I think they only do ten minutes checks for MAX status.

But, I don't know, because I was never-- I never had anything less than five minutes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how would they check you for those five minutes?

Pfc. Manning

I mean they would physically-- I mean and when I say physically I mean they would open-- cause they were in an observation booth.

They would open the door, and ask, you know--They would verbally ask me if I was okay.

Sometimes they poked their head out the door, and have line of sight and then ask me.

And, I would always have to respond as a courtesy to the-- usually they assigned a Lance Corporal for that role, but sometimes it was a Corporal, and that was how they-- that was how they checked on me during the daytime.

Defense (Coombs)

The SECNAV instructions indicates that if you are on MAX you are not assigned outside work details.Were you assigned any outside work details?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you even express any interest in being assigned work details?

Pfc. Manning

It had been conveyed to me by Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, when he was asking-- whenever he was interviewing me for the first time, that the jobs were available for, you know, if my status or custody level had changed.

So, I said I am more of a clerical guy or good with paper and stuff, and he was like-- cause I did not know what was available, so.

I am not really very good with physical stuff.So, he told me that the only thing like that was the library, so I expressed interest in that.

I said that I could probably implement some kind of system to organize everything, if that wasn't already in place.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were you ever assigned duties in the library?

Pfc. Manning

I was not, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Where were you assigned with regards to a cell?

Pfc. Manning

They kept me-- there were four cells that were directly in front of an observation booth with a two-- I mean it's a window, but-- I mean you can only see-- it's tinted-- it's heavily tinted on one side.

So, you can only see your reflection on the well lit side.So-- I forget what it is called-- it's a one-way mirror or one-way glass or one way window-- but I was held in one of the three.I think it was-- I stayed-- They moved me around once or twice, but I stayed in three cells-- one of three cells.

So, two on one side, and one on the other side of that other observation booth.

Defense (Coombs)

And, those that you stayed in, were always within sight of the observation booth?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. I want you to describe your cell, but in order to do that, I want to go ahead and make use of what we have here in the Courtroom, okay? 



[Coombs is referring to an at scale representation of Pfc. Manning's cell at Quantico made with white paper tape on the floor of the Courtroom.]

A9CamYrCQAAFUXA Image source: Clark Stoeckley

Pfc. Manning

Absolutely, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, if you would go head and please step out of the witness booth-- a the witness chair. 



[Pfc. Manning stands up and walk near Mr. David Coombs.]



Alright. First of all what I want to do is--

Judge Lind

Mr. Coombs, remember I have the big screen here.So, it is difficult.I can't see it right now with that.

Defense (Coombs)

Ma'am, do you want to reposition or anything?

Judge Lind

That's fine.That's fine.

Defense (Coombs)

We are going to be walking through here though, a lot, so of the Court wishes--

Judge Lind

Well, I'll stay.I'll move if I have to.Go ahead.

Defense (Coombs)

[to Pfc. Manning]

So, actually come up around this side for a me.That's okay.Now, looking at this, this cell.Do you know the dimensions of the cell that you were in?

Pfc. Manning

It was roughly six foot by eight foot to [missed word].

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so what I am going to do.I am just going to ask you to read how wide this is right now.

[Mr. Coombs pulls out a metal tape measure.]

Pfc. Manning

That is about five eleven, six feet.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. And, so six feet.

Pfc. Manning

I don't know how many centimeters.

Defense (Coombs)

Well, we will just go ahead and go-- so how far is this?

Pfc. Manning

So, that is 95 inches, eight feet--

Defense (Coombs)

Eight feet, okay.

Pfc. Manning

--96 inches.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so your cell, if I am correct, was six feet wide?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, it was eight feet long?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so this map area represents your living space that you were in at Quantico?

Pfc. Manning

Very [missed word].Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so now what I would you do is-- is lets go ahead and come into the cell--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--and tell me what are some of the things that we have here.

Can you identify?



[Defense has also used white paper tape on the floor to outline items within the cell.]

Pfc. Manning

I had a rack that was on a large metal things, so-- it would be a rack right here, which I slept on.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay, and if you would, put 'rack' down onto where the rack would be.



Pfc. Manning

Right, here Sir.

[Pfc. Manning takes a paper card with the word, 'rack' written on it and places it in the middle of the white paper tape outline of the rack within the white paper tape representation of his Quantico cell on the Courtroom floor.]

Judge Lind

Can you identify for the record how high the--

Defense (Coombs)

Yes, Ma'am.How high off the ground was the rack?

Pfc. Manning

About two feet, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. And the witness displayed that by using a hand gesture two feet off the ground.Can you tell me what this area is?

Pfc. Manning

I had a toilet and sink in this area, sir.So, there would be a sink right here at about, like, waist high, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

How high-- how high would you say that is?

Pfc. Manning

Maybe, three and a half, four feet, sir.No, it is a little less.

Defense (Coombs)

If you can put the sign of sink down, where the sink was?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Sir.

[Pfc. Manning places a sign with the word 'sink' written on it down in the sink outline made with white paper tape inside the white paper tape representation of his former Quantico cell.]

Defense (Coombs)

And, then you said that this other area was the toilet?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

It's a-- it comes-- the bowl physically comes out of the sink.

The metal bowl-- stainless steel bowl-- it's a-- at a lower level.So, it's about a foot and a half to the actual seating area of the bowl.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, and if you put the sign where the toilet is?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

[Pfc. Manning places a sign with the word 'Toilet' written on it down in the toilet outline made with white paper tape inside the white paper tape representation of his former Quantico cell.]

Defense (Coombs)

Now, did the toilet have anything blocking it in order to obstruct the view from the observation room to the toilet?

Pfc. Manning

The observation room was right here with the door-- right where Specialist Vincent is.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so when you say right here towards the middle the diagram of the cell?

Pfc. Manning

The door to the cell?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes.

Pfc. Manning

--was right here.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Let's go through.When you say right here, I have capture this for the record.So--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--so, for the door that-- let's talk about the observation room.Where was the observation room in relation to your cell?

Pfc. Manning

It was right across from my cell.And, this is assuming it's 191.Then, if it is cell 191, then it was slightly offset.

So, right across but slightly offset.So, maybe two thirds of it was actually in front of the cell.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so from the observation room in front of your cell.They could see clearly your entire-- your cell, correct?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. What I would like you to do now. We have got some items here. If you would go ahead and pick up. Hold on the blanket that was provided.This-- You are holding up what has been marked appellate exhibit 411.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--an actual photograph of that.And is this the same type of suicide blanket that you were provided?

Pfc. Manning

Mine was slightly thicker, and made out of a slightly coarser fabric.This is a little bit more used.This is more-- the ones that I was provided were straight out of the box.

Defense (Coombs)

And so, how did this blanket differ than the one that you were given?

Pfc. Manning

Slightly-- Slightly heavier, and a lot less flexible.It was the same color though.

Defense (Coombs)

So, the one that was slightly heavier and less flexible is the blanket that you were given?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. It was maybe a slightly lighter shade [missed word].

Defense (Coombs)

And when you used that blanket did that blanket impact you in anyway?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I mean even this one isn't very comfortable, but I mean the smock is actually made out of the exact same fabric that I had for the blanket I was given.This is--

Defense (Coombs)

How, if at all would that blanket affect your skin?

Pfc. Manning

It was a coarse fabric.So, it is not very comfortable.It is abrasive on skin at least.I mean I got-- I had at that point in time, pretty sensitive skin [missed a few words].

Defense (Coombs)

So, that would that be like a carpet burn?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. More like a rash.Slight burn, yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever complain about that to any of the medical?

Pfc. Manning

They-- I don't remember who the original corpsmen was.I think it was an E5.So, he was a-- he was a petty officer second class.I don't remember his name-- but, to that corpsmen and to the later added corpsmen for the OCS [Officer Candidate School], which was across the street from the Brig-- special-- not special-- E4, but petty officer, so HM3[Hospital Corpsman Third Class] Dodsin [sp.] was the corpsmen, and I would mention it.

But you know-- I mean it became sort of routine thing that I was-- that I got-- I got a bit of a rash.But, there nothing that he could really do for it.

Defense (Coombs)

If you would put down-- appellate exhibit 411 back.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. Place it here?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes, please.Taking now a look at appellate exhibit 415, which is the suicide smock.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Is that the same suicide smock or similar to what you were given?

Pfc. Manning

This is exactly the same, except mine was brand new.So, this one is a little bit, slightly more used, but not by much.

Defense (Coombs)

And, so the feel of the material is the same?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. The same material.Same weight.Same color.Same fabric.

Defense (Coombs)

What about--

Pfc. Manning

--same manufacturer.

Defense (Coombs)

--what about the size of this smock?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. It is the same size-- made out of the same [missed two words].

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. If you would please put the suicide smock on justto see the size.

Pfc. Manning

[to Coombs] Do you want me to remove the jacket?

Defense (Coombs)

That is fine.

Pfc. Manning

[Pfc. Manning removes his uniform jacket and tears open the industrial Velcro straps of the suicide smock.He dawns the suicide smock which is enormous on his small frame.]

Pretty strong [missed a few words. The Velcro strips make a loud noise when ripped open.]

Defense (Coombs)

From your memory, is that how the suicide smock fit you?

Pfc. Manning

This is a little bit more used, so it is a lot more flexible.It was a little but more rigid-- the one that I had, because it was brand new, so.

Defense (Coombs)

And, based upon this suicide smock, did you ever have an experience where it caused you any problems?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I was laying down on the rack trying to sleep and I remember my arms went into it, and I don't want to do that right now, but my arms got into it and I got stuck.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did you need any assistance getting out of the suicide smock?

Pfc. Manning

I did. I was still taking some sleep medication at the time, and I had I remember Corporal Sanders was the guard who actually came to the-- he opened the cell door and assisted me out of it-- released the [missed word].

It strong, [missed a few words] so I couldn't get out of it-- [missed word].

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. If you would, go ahead and take the suicide smock off.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Sir.

Defense (Coombs)

If you would, go ahead and place that back down [missed word].

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Now I would look at appellate exhibit 414.It is identified as the suicide mattress.Is this the mattress that you were provided?

Pfc. Manning

The mattress is-- this was very similar to the mattress I was first mattress I was given, before given the specific suicide mattress.

This is the same mattress that all cells in special quarters one had.

Defense (Coombs)

So, this was the mattress that you were given initially?

Pfc. Manning

It is the same type of mattress.The one that I had was slightly newer.And, so it was-- it was not as bendy or flexy--

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, and--

Pfc. Manning

--if that is possible, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

I apologize.That could be appellate exhibit 413, the standard confinement mattress that you just described.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Let's go ahead and take a look at appellate exhibit 414.If you would, Pfc. Manning, just come approach appellate exhibit 414.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Can you-- do you recognize this?

Pfc. Manning

No, I do not sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Have you ever seen anything like this?

Pfc. Manning

I have seen-- I mean it's got a pillow, so it is like a-- like a suicide mattress that I was given.

But, the one I had is a lot-- is a lot more similar to the green one on there.

This one is a lot-- its made out of-- its a lot more-- it's a lot thicker.Looks more like an air mattress to me, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, how was your mattress-- the suicide mattress that you were provided for the majority of your time there-- how was that different than this one?

Pfc. Manning

It was more like this green one except brand new-- like right out-- like had never been ever used before, and-- and it had a built in pillow just like that.

It wouldn't-- it wouldn't have-- it would have been a lot harder to bend like this-- like this is very flexible.It was a lot harder to bend.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. And, if we take a look now--

Pfc. Manning

Sir?

Defense (Coombs)

--the pillow, which is appellate exhibit 412.Have you ever seen anything like this before?

Pfc. Manning

I have seen a pillow like this in Kuwait-- at Camp Arifjan.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you ever given anything like that at Quantico Brig?

Pfc. Manning

I was not, sir.I was never issued a pillow at Quantico Base, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Retrieving the exhibit from the witness.Pfc. Manning go head and resume your position in the stand.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

[Pfc. Manning sits back in the witness stand.]

Defense (Coombs)

So, this cell that we see on the courtroom floor, how many hours out of the day would you be in this cell?

Pfc. Manning

Depending on what the schedule of calls was for that day, and visitation to other areas, whether it was a legal visit or a counselor visit outside of my cell.

It was between 21 and 23 hours-- sometime even over 23-- as much as 23 and a half hours [missed word].

Defense (Coombs)

So, what would you do inside of this six by eight foot cell for 23 hours a day?

Pfc. Manning

I would normally sit or just do something.

I mean, just try to keep myself occupied.So, I would try to think of something to do.I would usually sit on the rack, sir.

Sometimes they would allow me to have my legs up on the rack, in sortof an Indian style position, but sometimes that was not authorized.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you have any natural lighting that was coming into your cell?

Pfc. Manning

In 191 or 192? No, sir.

Those two cells-- I don't know about the other cell, because I was only in there for-- the one across from-- I don't know how long I was there for-- maybe just two days before-- just maintenance or something like that, so.

But, there was no reasonable way of accessing natural or indirectly seeing natural light.

You could see the window down the hall, from the cell-- but if you took your head and put it on the cell door, and looked through the crack between the cell door and the rest of the grating for the cell-- you could see down the hall-- you could see the reflection of the window-- but you couldn't see the actual window.

But, none of that natural light would actually come in from that window.

Defense (Coombs)

Was there any skylight in the facility?

Pfc. Manning

In the housing unit between-- about half way between-- So my-- I would draw it-- I will just try and use my hands.But--

Defense (Coombs)

Essentially-- just try to describe it, because I am gonna have to describe what you do when you when you use your hands.

Pfc. Manning

It was half way in between the-- in between the hall, the row, as they called it-- in special quarters.

It faced outwards towards the exit.So, it is halfway in between, and there is like a low ceiling over the first third of special quarters.

Then the ceiling goes up maybe twenty feet.There is a skylight that is facing the opposite-- pointing actually outside, then it goes down, and it goes down at an angle towards the fire exit and window.

Defense (Coombs)

Did any of the natural light from that skylight, make it to your cell?

Pfc. Manning

Not inside the cell.Again, you could see the reflection of the reflection of that light on the floor-- on the reflection of the floor from-- if you angled your face-- again, upon the door of the cell, which I wasn't allowed to do, but-- normally, at least.

Defense (Coombs)

How was your cell light during the day?

Pfc. Manning

There was a fluorescent light over the rack.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were these lights turned off at night?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. There were turned off at night. Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Was there any other lighting coming into your cell at night?

Pfc. Manning

Outside the cell, particularly two cells that I was held in the most: 191 and 192.

There is a fluorescent light directly outside, I believe, 191 in particular that just blasts, full fluorescent light into the cell.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did that light effect you if at all?

Pfc. Manning

Well, your-- my head, when you are sleeping, you are gonna have your feet towards the-- towards the observation area, with the head towards the wall at the back of the cell.

You couldn't turn any other way.So that they can see your face.So, right directly in front of you, if you did not have anything obstructing your path was the fluorescent light.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, when we look at the diagram of the cell, again, then your head would be roughly at the same level of the toilet?

Pfc. Manning

Roughly. Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And then your feet...?

Pfc. Manning

I-- I could see-- first thing in the morning I could see the toilet.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, also under the SECNAV, it requires MAX prisoners to wear restraints when they are outside of their cell?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

What restraints were you required to wear?

Pfc. Manning

I was required to wear, what they considered full restraint.So, I wore hand irons. Just, regular handcuffs with a metal loop, and a belt-- leather belt was attached to that loop.

And, then I was given leg irons for both-- on both my feet with a 20, maybe 18 inch chain between-- I am guessing at the length [missed a few words]...

Defense (Coombs)

How-- how--

Pfc. Manning

--without a measure.

Defense (Coombs)

How difficulty was it for you to walk in your full restraints?

Pfc. Manning

You cannot walk in full restraints without a guard holding you as a safety precaution.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why is that?

Pfc. Manning

Cause, you can easily just fall, straight on your face, because-- with the belt, with the hand iron, with the hand iron, they are towards your belly button. So, your hands are near your belly button, so you can't stop your self from failing, or anything like that, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Were these restraints taken off of you, when you went to the visitation room?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir. I might have, on occasion, had one hand released, but it would still-- but my other hand would still be locked in to the belt for-- for writing.

Defense (Coombs)

Was this also true when you were visiting with your attorney?

Pfc. Manning

That was only for attorney visits, and whenever I was signing paperwork with my command, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

When you were removed from your cell, how were you escorted?

Pfc. Manning

I was escorted with usually at least two guards and an NCO [Non Commissioned Officer], but it was-- it often went up to three guards and an NCO, and sometimes four guards and an NCO were transporting where I needed to go, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And how was the facility when you were moved?What did they do to the facility?

Pfc. Manning

They would place the entire facility on lockdown.So, no inmates would be moving, throughout the facility.No other detainees or prisoners or whatever status they were in: post trial, pretrial-- it would all be-- they were put in their cells, or where ever they were, and locked down.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how do you know that?

Pfc. Manning

They would announce over the intercom system.They would announce, 'Lockdown. Lockdown. Lockdown.' Three times, or 'Lockdown' three times, and then-- and then-- well, standby for 'Lockdown' lets you know that it was going to occur and they would announce the lockdown, and then-- and then movement was authorized for-- or they could start moving me at that point, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how were you moved from your cell at that point.Can you just describe that for Colonel Lind?

Pfc. Manning

Well, after-- I mean-- after I am placed in restraints, sir?

Defense (Coombs)

No. The process of you are in your cell and they are gonna move you, what do they do?They haven't put any restraints on you yet.

Pfc. Manning

Okay. I approach the cell door, near the feed tray, which is in front of me.I stand at parade rest at first.Then they-- the guard, usually a lance corporal, or sometimes a corporal, would instruct me to put both hands or one hand out through the feed tray, and then would place the hand irons on my-- put me in-- place me in hand irons, and there was a loop attached to it in between the two cuffs.

Sometimes it was a chain cuff, sometimes it was the hinge cuff.They had different ones for different times, and the belt was attached, and then they would-- if it was just the one hand, they would tell me to put the other hand out after one was placed in, then, and then I would have-- they would instruct me to pull myself in.They would hold the belt.

Then, I would spin around.They would instruct me to spin around.So, that they could put the belt.So, I would do an about face movement, and then they would, you know, put the belt on, and instruct me.

And, then after the belt was done, they would instruct me to put my knees up on the rack sometimes with my face on the wall-- sometimes I would have it stood up. I just waited for the direct instruction, which depended on the guard, and then they would place the leg restraints on me, while I am kneeling on the rack.

And, then they would hold-- they would hold the belt.And, they would hold-- they would usually like grab the belt-- the slack on the belt and hold onto that.And, I would get pulled up.Then I would be standing erect, with at least one guard holding me. And, I would be escorted outside the cell.

Defense (Coombs)

Now I want to just cover-- there were two time periods that you were on suicide risk, correct?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, I just want to briefly cover the conditions of suicide risk, and then we will compare that with how that differed to POI, 'prevention of injury'. Okay?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, real briefly, the times that you were on suicide risk, were you subject to constant observation?

Pfc. Manning

On suicide risk, yes.Constant, directly outside of the door observation, so, what they called line of sight observation, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how was that accomplished?

Pfc. Manning

There would be a guard, usually, and E2, usually a Private, or Private First Class for the Marines, would sit there, and he would have a clip board or at Marine Corps Base Quantico they had a green book in which they wrote down updates on whatever was going on.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, did you speak to the guard that was sitting outside of your cell during this time?

Pfc. Manning

Only if I needed something, sir.I was not authorized to have any conversation with him.

Defense (Coombs)

And, you said that they would write down things, do you know what they would be writing down?

Pfc. Manning

I know now through discovery, but I was not privy to that [missed word].

Defense (Coombs)

Were you ever woken up during the night during this time period?

Pfc. Manning

Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why would you be woken up?

Pfc. Manning

Well, sometimes if they felt that there view was obstructed or seeing my face, while I am sleeping, then they would knock on the-- they would knock on the door of the cell or on the grating of the cell and instruct me to respond in some manner.

I would sit up or move my face, depending on if I had a blanket obstructing my view or turned over so they could see my face, or some-- They just wanted-- they wanted to see my face in particular.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, why would you be covering your face, or turning your face away from the door?

Pfc. Manning

Well, when I am sleeping in-- as I am sleeping in 191 or 192, I have the light that's directly outside.

I didn't intend-- I mean I would often try to sleep so that, that way I wouldn't get woken up.I mean even if it meant, you know, having the bright light, you know, it seemed bright at that angle at least, you know, with that light coming in.

I would try and fall asleep like that, but I mean I ended up always rolling over, or covering myself just as I am asleep, and then that would lead me to being woken up.

I mean, on Suicide Risk it happened sometimes two or three times a night.

Defense (Coombs)

Where did you eat your meals when you were on suicide risk?

Pfc. Manning

I ate every meal inside of the cell, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what were you permitted to have inside of your cell, when you were on suicide risk?

Pfc. Manning

I was permitted to have-- I don't recall exactly what clothing I was authorized a part from my-- I think I had a T-Shirt, underwear, and socks on the very first time that I was ever on Suicide Risk.

And, then I had shorts, but they were-- they were Army standard PT shorts, but the loop inside of it had been taken out.So, it was just the elastic portion.So, they were modified PT shorts.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you permitted to have your prescription glasses?

Pfc. Manning

For the first two nights no, sir.For the first two days I was there, no sir.Whenever I was in the cell, I did not have glasses.

Defense (Coombs)

And, do you need your glasses in order to see?

Pfc. Manning

I cannot see past four or five inches with detail.

I mean, maybe with some practice, I can see depth of objects, large objects and [missed word] some things, but I cannot make out detail.So, no.I just can't.I can't see without my glasses [slight laugh at himself].

Defense (Coombs)

And, so for the first you said, you couldn't see.How many hours of the day were you required to be without your glasses?

Pfc. Manning

Anytime I was inside the cell and not doing-- filing out paperwork.I mean again this is the very first-- I had just arrived at the facility, but they got frustrated because i couldn't see-- I couldn't see the rank on their collars.

I remember that, so.They authorized me to wear glasses during the daytime at some point, a few days later.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why were they frustrated that they could not see the rank on their collars?

Pfc. Manning

It's the Marine Corps.

And, you always-- I mean every single time you spoke to somebody, you used their rank or sir or ma'am, depending on-- or Chief for Chief Warrant Officer or you know Commissioned Officer, or what not, sir.

So, the customs and courtesies are never ending, and they expect that at all times.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you allowed to have writing materials in your cell when you were on suicide watch?

Pfc. Manning

I don't recall being able to.

I don't remember what the handling instructions were for the first couple days I was-- I had only just arrived, so.On reception status you are not authorized.

So, I was on hybrid status for first week, I think, where I was on a reception status, as well as suicide risk.

So, I would have only-- I would only be authorized the rule book, what they called the 'Rules and Regulations' for the facility.It's a Brig Order.

Defense (Coombs)

You said then after the first coupled of days, then they did let you have your glasses?

Pfc. Manning

They did, sir--

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so let's--

Pfc. Manning

I remember now it was the rank and the fact that I can read with them, but I have to put it up to my face.

I am very near sighted.So, they were worried because I have this book that was like right up to my face, and I talked to-- I think it was Gunnery Sergeant Blenis about that.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, let's talk about what your life was like during the period of time, that first time when you were on suicide watch.

So, essentially you got there through 29 July to the time that they took you off 11 August--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--okay? Can you tell us what your average day was like during that time period?

Pfc. Manning

Certainly. I-- They would announce reveille. And, what is the end timeframe for that?If you could--

Defense (Coombs)

When you were taken off of suicide watch, 11 August?

Pfc. Manning

Okay. So, from my arrival to 11 August, I was inside of the cell.

They would announce reveille three times.'Reveille Reveille Reveille'Turn on the lights.

And, then they would place a-- they don't-- On Suicide Risk, they would sometimes authorize you limited access to a razor to shave.

So, I would shave my face with-- with a safety razor.And then return that.

And, then they would announce 'count'.There would be a-- sometimes-- sometimes there was enough time to do that hygiene-- shave your face-- before count.Sometimes there wasn't.

So, sometimes they would conduct count almost immediately following 'Reveille Reveille Reveille'

Defense (Coombs)

And--

Pfc. Manning

--and throughout the day they would do counts.They would deliver chow.And, then I would--I don't recall on suicide watch being authorized anything more than twenty minutes 'sunshine call'.So, they would take me out of the cell to go outside in full restraints for twenty minutes.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. So you went to sleep at 22 hundred, correct?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. That was the end of the day. Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, from zero five to 22 hundred, other than the twenty minutes 'sunshine call' outside of your cell, were you taken out of your cell?

Pfc. Manning

On reception status, no.So, for the first couple days, no.And--

Defense (Coombs)

What about for the suicide watch?

Pfc. Manning

The suicide watch, without the reception hybrid status, they would take me to 'sunshine call'.

And then on-- usually once a week I would be pulled out to see Gunnery Sergeant Blenis.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what about showers.Were you ever taken out for showers?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, that is the other thing.It is in the housing unit, so it is maybe fifteen meters from the exit to my cell.

Further out from, past the-- past the point where the sunlight is.

It's called a sunlight, right?The hole in the ceiling-- window-- and then you have the shower.Then, that was were I took my shower was fifteen or twenty minutes [missed word] from my cell.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how long were you provided to take a shower?

Pfc. Manning

Usually between five and ten minutes on suicide risk status with a guard standing directly outside of the shower, with line of sight on me.

There is no-- there is nothing obstructing the view between the outside of the shower-- the outside of the cell area containing the shower.

Defense (Coombs)

So, for the rest of the time that you are inside of your six by eight cell, where you permitted to lie down flat on the rack?

Pfc. Manning

Flat-- lie down flat on the rack?

Defense (Coombs)

--yeah, on your back?

Pfc. Manning

--on reception status, all hours were considered duty hours, so no.

The entire day you sat upright, with your legs on-- eventually the [missed word] of my legs being on the bed, but-- like an Indian style position. But depending on who the guard was.

And then, duty hours would be implemented after I was taken off of reception status. Duty hours being between zero five and 17 hundred to as late as 19 hundred during the weekdays, and during the holiday period, they still implemented early duty hours between zero seven and 10-- for the start of visitation period, and then they would re-implement that period, right after chow-- right after dinner chow.So, between 16 hundred to again 18 hundred.

Defense (Coombs)

So, if it were during the duty day, were you permitted to lie down on your rack?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir. Definitely not.Unless you had-- there was a medical exception that I did have at night, towards the end, after I would take-- I would take the Ativan-- I forgot what it was-- Clonazepam-- Klonopin.So, I would take that and they would allow me to sleep after that.

Defense (Coombs)

So, if you lay down in your cell, and it was during the duty day, what would happen?

Pfc. Manning

You would be told not to do that.If you continued to do so, you would face disciplinary action including having a DA board.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you permitted to lean your back against the wall...?

Defense (Coombs)

No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--during the duty day?

Pfc. Manning

Not during the duty hours, no.Unless you had a back-- you always had-- any exception status would be on the handling instructions, which were normally outside on a clipboard outside of the cell.

Defense (Coombs)

And, was that always the case during your entire time at Quantico?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. I want to go to POI, but before I do that if we could take a ten minute comfort break?

Judge Lind

Alright. And that enough for everybody?

Prosecution (Fein)

Ma'am, can we make it fifteen please?

Judge Lind

That is fine.Court is in recess until 15:30 or 2:30 p.m.

ALL RISE

ALL RISE

Judge Lind

Please be seated.This Article 39(a) session is called to order.Let the record reflect all parties present when the Court last recessed are again present in Court.Mr. Coombs?

Defense (Coombs)

Thank you, your Honor.Pfc. Manning, I remind you that you are still under oath.

Pfc. Manning

[missed]

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, let's talk about POI.Prevention of injury.Were you ever downgraded from suicide risk to prevention of injury?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir, I was.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when was this?

Pfc. Manning

Mid to late August. I don't recall-- I do not remember the exact date, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Let's compare what your life was like on prevention of injury, as opposed to when you were on suicide risk.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

During this time, were you still on MAX as well?

Pfc. Manning

I will still on-- well, being on suicide risk or POI is an automatic that you are on MAX status.

Defense (Coombs)

That was your understanding?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. That was what Gunnery Sergeant Blenis explained to me.And from my reading of the facility rule book, it was implied.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so when you were on prevention of injury, were you still subjected to constant observation?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. But, it was not line of sight. It was through the observation booth window.

Defense (Coombs)

How often were the Brig guards checking on you when you were on prevention of injury?

Pfc. Manning

They would open the door, and poke their head out.And, sometimes they would step out completely, and check on me.

I described it as physically check on me.So, they have line of sight, and then they ask me verbally, 'Are you okay? How you doing? Are you doing good?'

So, I respond, 'Yes, Rank.Yes, Lance Corporal.Yes, Corporal. Yes, PFC.'

Defense (Coombs)

And during this time that you were on POI, with the-- were you ever woken up in the middle of--

Pfc. Manning

Not, nearly as frequently.Maybe once every few nights, but at last two or three times a week this occurred, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, was this also due to covering your head or obstructing their view in some way?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, and it wasn't intentional.I mean it was usually just I am just rolling over during the night, so that I just end up where they-- where the guard cannot see my entire face, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, where did you eat your meals when you are on POI?

Pfc. Manning

On prevention of injury it was the same arrangement.Where I would eat the meal in the cell, but I was given a plastic tray.

And, it was a metal spoon for the longest time.That is what I recall.So, I was given on metal spoon, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were there any other detainees near you when you were on POI status?

Pfc. Manning

They were in special quarters.So, they weren't necessarily adjacent to me, or near to me.But, they would-- they would be-- there were some detainees that I could hear down on the same row.

And, certainly there was several detainees on a row on the other side of the observation booth, where there would be a large commotion.

I mean there was a lot of mingling and things and a lot of yelling.

So, I knew that they-- that other detainees were there.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you permitted to speak to other detainees that are on your same row?

Pfc. Manning

Technically I was, but it had to be in a low conversational tone, but if they are not near me-- I mean even if I am talking to someone-- whenever you don't have line of sight with anybody, so-- low conversational tone is-- was anything other than yelling, so, no.

I mean, but I was technically allowed to speak to other detainees, but in actually doing so I would be violating the conversational tone-- tone rules. So, in essence, no.

Defense (Coombs)

And, if you violated that rule by raising your voice, what would happen?

Pfc. Manning

They would open the door to the observation booth an tell me that I wasn't-- that I needed to-- that because of the distance between me and the other detainees or prisoners-- and I don't know what status the other people are, because I can't see them.You know, I am not allowed to talk to them.

They might be a different-- sometimes it was a different status, but it was always that they were too far away from me to be-- for me to have a conversation with them.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at this point, as I understand what you said earlier, you were initially provided kind of the standard mattress?Is that correct?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. Again, much like the the green mattress that is there-- slightly-- it was slightly in better condition than that one in terms of it was more rigid-- wasn't flexible.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were you provided a pillow when you got downgraded to POI?

Pfc. Manning

No. I've never received a pillow as far as I am aware of , sir.

Defense (Coombs)

What did you start to do with your mattress due to the fact that you did not have a pillow?

Pfc. Manning

I would take the mattress and I would roll up one end slightly so that way I could put my head on it, and that way my head wasn't down.So, my head was elevated about another two inches, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Did there come a time that they actually did provide you with a suicide mattress that had the built in pillow?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. They did.They gave me a different mattress.I think they ordered specially in December, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

December of 2010?

Pfc. Manning

December of 2010.Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, is that when you received it?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, I received it as soon as it arrived.It was specially ordered to--

Defense (Coombs)

And--

Pfc. Manning

--basically that is what Chief Warrant Officer Averhart said.

Defense (Coombs)

And, I know you kind of described the difference between the mattress that we have as an appellate exhibit and the one that you received, but in general, how would you describe the comfort level of the suicide mattress that you were provided?

Pfc. Manning

It was the same as the regular mattress. So, the comfort level improved with the pillow, but not by a horrible-- a large amount.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you permitted to have regular sheets or blankets once you were placed on POI?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir. I have never had sheets or blankets-- well, apart from the POI blankets.

Defense (Coombs)

And, these POI blankets, you said that they were rigid.How were they as far as keeping you warm at night?

Pfc. Manning

They do not retain heat.If you have two of them, I think, that the air in between them insulates a little bit better, but I didn't-- during the summertime it was very cold, and they didn't-- I mean they would usually come-- I digress a little, but they usually overcompensated the temperature.So, if it was hot outside, it would be intensely cool inside.So-- so it was usually cool in the wintertime as well.But, they would issue a second blanket in the wintertime.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Were you permitted to have personal items in your cell, once you were placed on POI?

Pfc. Manning

By personal items, if you mean like hygiene items and extra uniforms and things--

Defense (Coombs)

Right.

Pfc. Manning

--no. I was-- if I asked for toilet paper, and I needed it, then I would have access to toilet paper or just toilet paper during the day.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so I guess, let's just continue on that one question for the toilet paper. If you needed to use the toilet, and you needed toilet paper, how would you ask for it?

Pfc. Manning

I would stand up to the front of the door-- standing at parade rest, and I would-- and I would announce through to the escorts in the observation room-- I would announce, "Lance Corporal, detainee Manning requests permission to use toilet paper"

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so--

Pfc. Manning

--or "...permission to receive toilet paper."

Defense (Coombs)

You are at the front of your cell.You would announce that--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--and then what happens?

Pfc. Manning

They would sometimes come out if they weren't too busy, and then they would retrieve toilet paper.It was either in the cell adjacent to me where other belongings were, or they would have a roll of toilet paper inside the observation room to give to me.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay, so, when you were in the cell, and you were asking for that--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--did you ever wait in order to get the toilet paper?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I would stand at parade rest at the front of the door, until they would either see me.I am still standing there, and then they would respond. Sometimes if they didn't hear me, they would see me there, and know that I was wanting a request for something, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay, once you received it, again there was nothing blocking their view of you when you were using the toilet?

Pfc. Manning

Correct. That is correct, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And so, once you received the toilet paper, used it, then if you had extra toilet paper, what did you do with it?

Pfc. Manning

I always gave the toilet paper back to the guard.I did not keep it.As, soon-- as soon as I was finished with the toilet paper I had to give it back to the guard.

Sometimes, if they would go back to the observation booth, then I would set it on the feed tray for them to pick up.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, if you wanted to wash your hands, then, at the sink, what would you have to do?

Pfc. Manning

I would have to do the same process.So, I would stand at the front of the cell, and request for soap from my soap dish.It was a lot more-- it was a lot less of a priority.So, I didn't often receive that.I didn't always ask for it.

Defense (Coombs)

So, there were times where you would asked for it, and they never gave it to you?

Pfc. Manning

That is correct, Sir.Were-- I would stand at parade rest there, and sometimes-- and then I would just-- they would say that they are gonna get it, and then they didn't. And, then I would just sit down and not worry about it.

Defense (Coombs)

Now other personal items.What else were you allowed to have in your cell other than, you-- I guess your clothes and your glasses at that point?

Pfc. Manning

The only-- the items that I had were I had a mattress, POI blanket or blankets depending on the temperature outside.For a period of time I had flip flops.So, socks, underwear, shorts, flip flops, and that would be all the physical items that are not attacked to the cell itself.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you permitted to have reading material in your cell?

Pfc. Manning

I don't remember the exact instructions on what-- what I was authorized to read-- when-- but I was eventually given the privilege to read, although the library collection was-- I mean it wasn't-- it was fairly limited.So, I didn't have a lot of interest in a lot of books that they had, so I ordered some.

Defense (Coombs)

What did you order to read?

Pfc. Manning

I ordered books that I-- and that I in particular have an interest in reading or had read before and wanted to read again, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

How did you get those books?

Pfc. Manning

Those were special ordered through-- by my family and would arrive in pre-selected packages so that the facility would know that they were coming ahead of time.

Defense (Coombs)

And, do you recall what books you were reading at that time?

Pfc. Manning

I read a lot of philosophy books-- a lot of history books.I am more of a non-fiction reader, though I do like real-- I like realistic fiction like John Grisham, Tom Clancy sort of present day real-- realistic events-- that type of fiction.

But, more of a non-fiction reader, so.Brian Greene is a good author.Richard Dawkins would be an interesting author, sir.Those are the types of books that I like to read when I have recreational time, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were you allowed to have all those books in your cell at that point?

Pfc. Manning

No. They were in the cell adjacent to me.I was authorized to read books, and only read the book.So, I would sit there and I would be reading the book.

If I was not reading the book, then the guard would come out of the cell or announce, you know, ask me if I was still reading the book.

And, he would ask me if I was done.If I wasn't reading it-- like even if I-- even if my eyes were taken away from it-- like just to rest my eyes-- they would open the door and ask me if I was still reading the book.

Defense (Coombs)

So, if you weren't actively reading the book, the book would be taken away--

Pfc. Manning

--and looking like I was actively reading the book, yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.

Pfc. Manning

--they would ask me-- they would ask to retrieve the book.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you allowed to exercise in your cell now that you are on POI?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir. Not-- not-- I mean there were ways around it in terms of not being quite exercising, but--

Defense (Coombs)

What did you try to do to get around the exercise prohibition?

Pfc. Manning

There was a lot of things-- there was a lot of things.I would practice various dance moves-- and dancing is not technically exercising, as far as they were concerned.It wasn't unauthorized on the handling instructions.So, I did that sometimes.I would do resistance training with my arms--

Defense (Coombs)

What do you mean by resistance training?

Pfc. Manning

It is where you're using-- where you're doing-- where you're putting effort against your muscles, but you are not-- you don't necessarily have a weight or anything.

So, it is like weight training, but without the weights, because you don't-- because you might not have access to them.So it tones muscles mostly.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what else would you do?

Pfc. Manning

Anything. Any kind of body movement or pacing around.Walking around.Shuffling.Just any type of movement.

I mean there wasn't a lot to do, so I would just try to move around as much as I could.Even, if it was just-- even if it was just minor movements every so often-- just keep moving.That way I can keep the blood flowing, and stay awake.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, you indicated that, that was one form-- that the dancing was once form of pseudo exercise.That the guards would not stop you from doing.

Pfc. Manning

Correct. It was not-- it was not a regulation exercise as far as they're concerned-- like crunch-- like stomach crunches or pull ups or sit ups or anything like that.

And, it wasn't-- it was up to interpretation.I mean I guess dancing is not-- they didn't allow whistling or singing or anything like that.So, there was a lot of things-- I mean they were very-- if it wasn't-- if it was written that it was unauthorized on the handling instructions, then they would go by that and nothing else.

Defense (Coombs)

So, when you say you were doing anything to stay awake.What was it like to be in your cell like that-- for that period of time?

Pfc. Manning

It was pretty draining.I can't think of another word.Just tiring.You are just-- if you are-- I spent a lot of time, looking for things to stay active and to keep my mind from going back to a state similar to Kuwait.

I didn't want to-- I tried to feel as much like I wasn't trapped in it-- like a cage or a cell.I tried to feel like I wasn't trapped in there-- that I still know where I am. I know my environment.

I would just try to stay active and I would tryto keep from falling asleep, because they-- that was the rule. You were not allowed to sleep or look like-- even the appearance of sleep was considered sleeping.So, you couldn't close your eyes or anything like that.So, I would move around.Get blood pumping, instead of-- just to keep myself from sleeping-- and drink-- and I drank a lot of water, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Let's talk about some other restrictions on POI.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you still only getting twenty minutes of 'sunshine call' when you were placed on POI from suicide sisk?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. I was authorized twenty minutes. I don't-- I assume [missed a few words] there was a discussion at least of an upgrade to possibly thirty minutes by Gunnery Sergeant Blenis in October timeframe, but I don't know if that was ever [missed word].I don't remember.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you know when you were upgraded, I guess from twenty minutes of 'sunshine call' to one hour of rec call.

Pfc. Manning

Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart came to see at one point and said he was-- that as long as it wasn't-- as long as I didn't do anything-- stupid is the word that I can think of, but I don't want to say that, that is what he said-- but as long as I wasn't doing anything to look like I was harming myself or anything like that, then he would allow me to have more recreation privileges.

But, the second that I did not-- didn't comply or have anything, then it would go back to the way-- he would change the handling instructions back to the way they were before.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, when you were taken on-- do you recall the time period that was?

Pfc. Manning

I want to say December, because it was-- it was before-- it was in the week or two preceding or right before my birthday, which is December 17th.

And, I remember that I spoke with you the week after that to announce it.So, I don't-- that is what I remember, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. And, so when you were taken now for your-- I guess for the twenty minutes of 'sunshine call', let's talk about what you did from 29 July to basically December timeframe.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

My understanding is that you had two places to go inside rec and outside rec, is that right?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, depending on outdoor conditions, the temperature outside was one of the factors and whether there was icing or raining or anything.Then, I went-- that determined whether I was at an indoor recreation area or an outdoor recreation area.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. So when you were taken to an outdoor recreation area, for your twenty minutes of 'sunshine call'--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--what were you doing?

Pfc. Manning

For 'sunshine call', the twenty minute period, I would be taken outside in full restraints.They would have one or two guards.Always at least one guard holding me, and we would walk usually in some kind of-- like around in circles or on figure eights.Try to change of the shape by their request, you know, to move around.I would get some walk and see some sun, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what about indoor rec, what would you do for your twenty minutes of indoor rec?

Pfc. Manning

The same thing towards-- in-- during the autumn timeframe, I was still going outside, even when it was like there was a light mist.

But, around-- before Thanksgiving, they cleared out one of the-- they kept-- they kept describing it as a chapel-- I don't know anything about that, but they changed it to an indoor recreation area, and I would be-- and I was transported to that indoor recreation area, and then I walked around with the guard, inside that bay area.

Defense (Coombs)

Still in restraints?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, for the 'sunshine call', yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you permitted to wear shoes during the time?

Pfc. Manning

Without laces.I had tennis shoes that I received through my command.They were my tennis shoes from Fort Drum.I don't know how they got them.I was surprised to see them again.They removed the laces from them and they would-- I mean they are at my ankles so they would not stay on my feet.So, I wore my Army issue tan boots for the ACUs without laces, because they-- the tongue is built in so it just stays on your feet.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Now, when you were increased to one hour of recreation call now--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--what would you do for your recreation call outside?

Pfc. Manning

This is recreation call so there-- for recreation call I didn't have restraints. They would remove the restraints for outdoor.There was a feed tray.They would close me into the pen area.

They call it the bullpen, which was maybe a third of the size of an NBA basketball court, and they would remove my restraints through the chain link bullpen feed tray.And, I would walk around.

They wouldn't let me run for the longest time, and it wasn't a good idea either, because I was wearing boots, because they didn't let me have laces.

At some point, I got laces for my shoes.I don't recall when or how, but I was able to do a little jogging then, and play when they gave me a basketball, so.

There was a hoop.It was probably about eight feet, so it wasn't regulation, but it was a basketball hoop-- I could use.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. And, let's talk about the indoor rec then.What could you do on the indoor rec?

Pfc. Manning

There was less that I could do on the indoor rec.They would take me into the indoor recreation area.They would have a chair.They would set me on a chair.They would remove my restraints.

This was the only time that they would actually remove my restraints, while they were not going through a feed tray or anything.So, they were a lot more careful about how they did that.

And, then-- I was always-- I would have to stay about ten or fifteen feet away from the guards, if I wasn't-- they wouldn't let me be near the guards during that time.

And, then I was in sort of an area-- and I always have three or four guards-- and always an Non Commissioned Officer, usually and E5 or E6, would be watching me while I am in there.And, I could walk around.

There was a-- there was some spinners, which are a bike with some resistance, which is set with a screw, and we adjusted positions. Some guards authorize me to utilize that if I asked for permission to use it, and they did.Used that for cardio.And, there was a-- again, permission was required every time, but I would use the pull-up bars and-- they had a set of pull-up bars-- and I would use those-- use my own body weight for exercises.

They also had a mat so I could do sit-ups and pushups.There was on the sides of the room, there were electronic exercise equipment that were there.

From my understanding, I was told that most of it didn't work, and that-- but they didn't want me to touch anything electronic, whatsoever.So, I wasn't allowed to touch the-- or be near the electronic equipment-- the a-- like a-- they had treadmills and weight lifting equipment-- but if it plugged into something or had any sort of computer, they didn't allow me to touch it.They were concerned about that.

Defense (Coombs)

So, if it were a say a bright, sunny day and they took you to outdoor rec--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Pfc. Manning

--and if you wanted to, could you just kind of sit down on the ground, or maybe lay down on the ground, to just take in some sun?

Pfc. Manning

Definitely not.No laying down.I always had to be doing something, whether it was walking or moving around. If they did not-- if I was not moving around they would ask me if I wanted my rec time secured, whether I wanted to fill out a 'voluntary statement'.I would be-- at first I thought-- but I just went with it.

I always would walk around.I would at least walk around in like circles, figure eights, S formations. I made up all kinds of different shapes that I could walk around in, while I had the boot restriction or the lace restriction.

And, then I was able to play basketball and things, but it was a lot more maneuverable with a-- and they were less concerned about me falling or getting injured in anyway without the laces [missed a word].

Defense (Coombs)

Now, were you-- on POI were you permitted to have correspondence time, where you could write to family members?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I think it was an hour long. It usually clashed with-- I eventually got TV privileges.So--

Judge Lind

You got what privileges?

Pfc. Manning

Television privileges, Ma'am.

Defense (Coombs)

So, you got-- it clashed with the TV privileges?

Pfc. Manning

Right, so there was a-- there was a period of time where it was either television or correspondence, or the combination of the two. I don't know. So, I was authorize my legal document to see and have access to legal material including some of the print-offs of discovery material, and a notebook, and I recall one pen.

Defense (Coombs)

And, were you allowed to call your family during the time that you were on POI?

Pfc. Manning

Technically yes.There was a telephone.I never used the telephone that they had for the regular phone calls, because there is a collect call situation.

I don't-- I never really got the whole gist of how it worked exactly.I was given a pin number, although, my pin number didn't work for it.So, they would-- what it was, was there was like a telephone from like an old TV-- or not TV-- or telephone booth-- like that kind of telephone, but it was on a cart.

And, then they had a long cable that would plug into the wall in the observation room.

And, then you would use it, and it went to a system, and you pick up the phone, and you enter your pin number and a bunch of other things, but it was only collect call out.

And, you had to make sure that the-- that, that phone number was authorized on the list of phone numbers.It was a complicated process, and I don't recall ever being able to call anybody, because most-- one, I had issues with the pin number.Two, I had issues with the numbers being placed in the system.

And, three, I was-- I was aware that most of the phone-- most cell phone companies don't accept this type of collect call.

So, almost everybody at the facility-- and I have been told by Gunnery Sergeant Blenis that most people weren't able to make phone calls using that system, because of all those little quirks and complications with it.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you aware that the telephone calls that you were making were being recorded?

Pfc. Manning

Using those-- that-- using that phone system they would have been recorded-- I also-- there was a little bit of-- I don't really want to call my aunt and have every word scrutinized, you know, like that-- like on her end.

So, I would tell her-- I felt it was best just to leave my aunt alone, and leave some of my friends alone in that respect.

Defense (Coombs)

During the time that-- based upon the fact they had recordings of your calls, you were able to occasionally call your aunt or call family members?

Pfc. Manning

No, the system-- not using the phone system that was available for me on those-- during off duty hours.

I never used-- I don't recall ever being able to use that system.They had the same phone system that we used for our attorney phone calls on-- they gave us a courtesy phone call, because some of the people were having issues with the phones that they authorized.

There was a point with a-- would take all-- I was told that all the other detainees had this happening as well.But, they took me out of the cell on Thanksgiving day of 2010.I don't recall the day, I know it was a Thursday.

But, and they took me in for-- in that area, and they asked me.They had to check with the phone number and everything, but I made a phone call to my aunt.It was a ten minute phone call. The guards were standing right next to me.

And, I told her that I was good, and that I loved her and everything else.And, then I called-- and then for Christmas eve, I was given the same opportunity for-- they called it a 'courtesy phone call'.Again, ten minutes, and I called Tyler.

Those were the only two phone numbers that-- I actually knew three phone numbers, including yours, sir.But, those are the only three phone numbers that I had memorized, so.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Now, were you allowed to have visitors at Quantico, now that you were on POI?

Pfc. Manning

I was authorized visitors.I had to fill out paperwork to place them on the visitation list, and they had to be approved.

So, they had to have like background checks, and things like that-- I don't know what was entailed with that, but I guess what Gunnery Sergeant Blenis-- Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, by the way, just he was my main conduit with the-- for communications through the facility, so.

Defense (Coombs)

He was your Brig counselor?

Pfc. Manning

He was the Brig counselor, so.He was the overall-- he was the overarching supervisor--- NCOIC of the counseling program.There were three counselors, but he wasmy assignment counselor.He assigned himself as my counselor.

Defense (Coombs)

So, how often were you permitted to have visitors come?

Pfc. Manning

They were authorized on weekdays-- or no, weekends.They were authorized on weekends from eleven, no from ten o'clock-- no, from twelve noon until 15 hundred. So, three hours on weekends.

Defense (Coombs)

Anytime on the weekdays?

Pfc. Manning

I think holidays-- they treated those as weekends, and I think they had a holiday schedule, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And where would these visits take place?

Pfc. Manning

These would take place in a non contact booth.They were-- booth was-- right at the partition between the front of the facility and the rest of the facility.So, that is where they took place.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you were taken to see your visitors in the non-contact booth, were the restraints removed from you?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir. If it was an attorney visit again, I had one-- I sometimes had one hand removed for writing.

Defense (Coombs)

How many hours of the day, that you are now on POI would you-- would you say that you were inside your six by eight foot cell?

Pfc. Manning

Can you just rephrase that question, sir?

Defense (Coombs)

Now that you went from suicide risk to POI, how many hours of the day do you think in general you were inside of the cell?

Pfc. Manning

Roughly the same amount.I think I got another-- there might be an additional five minutes-- five minutes for being out, because I was given a little bit more shower time.

Defense (Coombs)

And, a little bit more rec time?

Pfc. Manning

Eventually, yes sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, in your estimation what was the difference from your perspective of suicide risk to POI?Can you tell Colonel Lind?

Pfc. Manning

Very little.In terms of the effect-- there were-- there were distinctions, but I always had a guard watching me.

I mean it was just a question of whether or not it was through the glass window or not. And, I had some additional clothing for POI, for a period of time, so, until March of 2011.

Defense (Coombs)

So, other than that, your estimation is that it is roughly the same?

Pfc. Manning

Well, yes. I mean the distinction is so low that I wouldn't really-- I mean it's a big-- it is sort of a big difference, in terms of from my perspective.

I didn't have to have somebody sit right outside of my cell all the time-- directly outside of my cell.There was at least, the appearance of them not being there, but they were still sitting there.So, it was roughly the same.So, it was roughly the same.I would say ninety per cent the same.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did you know that Chief Averhart and later Chief Barnes were submitting weekly reports up through the chain of command?

Pfc. Manning

I had no idea sir, until I-- actually three weeks ago when you told me that.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you know that your counselor, Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, was filling out information for these weekly reports?

Pfc. Manning

I found out some of that information through what he put into the system and what we got the print out from the Article 138 complaint, but that was towards the January, February timeframe that I found that out.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what was the role of the Brig counselor from your perspective?

Pfc. Manning

I saw him as my conduit-- my communication person to the facility apart from the standard guard, where I always standing at parade rest and doing exactly what I am told at all times.

I could speak to him on a-- at level.He would relax.He didn't wear a belt.So, he--All the guards wore a duty belt, and a [cuffer?] at all times.

And, they never left that role as long as they wore a duty belt and the cap, but he didn't wear a duty belt, so he could relax, and I could relax and talk to him at level.

Defense (Coombs)

How often would you see Gunnery Sergeant Blenis?

Pfc. Manning

I saw him at least once a week for a long period of time.I think there was a period of time in which he went on leave, so-- and then TAD [Temporary Additional Duty] for, I don't know. I forget. I think it is TAD for the Marines Corps, but there was a period of time in which he left, and Staff Sergeant Jordan covered down.

He was the Army liaison officer as well as a counselor.So, I would speak to him in that role, but Gunnery Sergeant Blenis was the-- I think it is Master Sergeant Blenis now.He got promoted, so.

Defense (Coombs)

And, where would you--

Pfc. Manning

[missed]

Defense (Coombs)

--that's fine.Where would you see Master Sergeant Blenis?

Pfc. Manning

Master Sergeant Blenis would visit me in the cell at least twice a week normally to see me.Not necessarily talk to me, but, you know, 'Are you doing okay?' 'Yes, Gunnery Sergeant Blenis' or '[missed], Gunnery Sergeant Blenis.'And, then he would pull me out, and I would be escorted to his office.And, I would sit in his office, and he would talk to me, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

When you were taken to his office, were your restraints removed?

Pfc. Manning

My restraints were never removed outside of that-- in that capacity, so, no. They were not removed, so.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how long would your sessions last with then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis?

Pfc. Manning

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis.I spoke to him between twenty minutes to-- usually at least twenty minutes to forty five minutes to [missed word]-- at most an hour.I mean sometimes-- whenever-- whenever he was-- early on I was able to talk to him more.So-- So it was almost an hour for the early portion.

Defense (Coombs)

And what would the two of you talk about?

Pfc. Manning

We would just banter.I mean, I used the opportunity to have-- to talk to somebody that wasn't-- that wasn't wearing a duty belt.So, I could talk to him as a person and not have this guard inmate relationship.

You know, I thought-- I thought he was a fairly level person.So, I could talk to Master Sergeant Blenis.So, I talked to him about all kinds of stuff. I mean, he had an interest in college sports, so.I like college basketball, so. That was-- that was one thing that we often talked about.

Defense (Coombs)

And, based upon your interaction, what did you think of Master Sergeant Blenis?

Pfc. Manning

Master Sergeant Blenis is a very nice.He is a very nice person.I really like Master Sergeant Blenis.I think he-- I think he is a-- I think he is a level headed guy-- extraordinary Marine, sir.I have a high opinion of Master Sergeant Blenis.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you trust him?

Pfc. Manning

I did-- for a period of time-- I trusted Master Sergeant Blenis, yes.

Defense (Coombs)

During the July 2010 to December 2010 time frame, did then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis ever tell you that you were doing anything wrong?

Pfc. Manning

No, and I would-- I was always asking, you know, 'How am I doing?,' you know, 'How would you...' As you know, I like to be rated sometimes and I like to get an idea of where I am on things, you know, 'Give me an A, B, C, D,' you know.

He would usually give me an 'A' rating for whatever I was doing. Or, sometimes I would get a percentage, but-- or points or stars, or however, you know, whichever [missed], but I was always asking what I could do, and how--

The big problem or the big issue that would always come up is my status.You know, and during that time period I would ask him, and he would say, 'Well,' you know, 'whenever the doctors,' and he was referring to the psychiatrists, 'felt comfortable and would recommend me to come off of the prevention of injury status, then I could possibly get off of that and maybe see about,' you know, 'getting more privileges and maybe doing some work details and things.'

Defense (Coombs)

And, when do you think the earliest time period you started asking him about, you know, 'Hey, what do I need to do to get off of POI?' or 'How am I doing...?'

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean at first I wasn't asking him to take me off of POI.I mean that wasn't how it worked.I would-- I would-- He would bring it up.He would bring up, 'How's it going with' you know, 'the docs?'

He referred to them-- Master Sergeant Blenis would refer to them as the 'docs'. I mean I would say, 'It's Captain Hocter'So, I don't want to degrade him or anything.But, you know, he would always ask me how I was doing with him, sir.

And, I would say, you know, 'Things seem to be going okay,' you know.And, I would tell him how things were going, and I would ask him how from the facility standpoint, how he felt through-- obviously I was asking him directly how the facility was feeling about that issue.

And, he would always-- whenever I did start asking him, which was probably around mid-September I started asking about it, because I had been on suicide watch for over two months at that point, including the time in Kuwait, and I felt that was odd and unusual.

It didn't seem normal from my vantage point, and the guards were often-- offline talking about the fact that I was on suicide watch for a long period of time. And they would ask me-- they kept on asking me, 'When are you getting off of...' Well it wasn't suicide watch, but, '...off of POI?'They referred to it as just, 'suicide watch' or 'Manning Watch.'

Defense (Coombs)

And, so when you were talking with Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, you said, roughly in September time frame is when you started raising the issue of , 'When can I-- might be able to get off of this?'

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. I remember my father visited me in early to mid September.Cause I know we were talking about the-- the issue with the-- I forgot the name of the man-- the pastor in Florida that was threatening to-- to burn the Koran on September 11th.

We were talking about that, and it hadn't happened yet, but so it was early September.And, it was around that timeframe, because I remember that particular conversation that we were talking about when my father visited, and that is when I raised the issue about the-- well he raised the issue about the POI-- asking about, 'How it is going with the docs?''What are they telling you?'and everything else.And, that was what Master Sergeant-- that is a quote from Master Sergeant Blenis, again--

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, and so then--

Pfc. Manning

--I am referring to the 'docs'.

Defense (Coombs)

--as the months increased, and now we are going into October, November, are you still having these conversations with Gunnery Sergeant Blenis?

Pfc. Manning

Pretty consistently.As-- I mean he would always ask about it if I didn't raise it.He would ask about, you know, 'What are they saying?' you know, and then I started asking-- it wasn't-- there was a certain point in time.

I don't-- I think it was October, but I started-- I started asking Captain Hocter what about, you know, why he wasn't recommending me to come off of POI.

Because I didn't know-- I didn't ask what his recommendations were to the facility or anything like that.He kept on saying that he was recommending me to comeoff of POI, and then I-- and then I was talking to Master Sergeant Blenis about the fact that I was still on POI, and that-- he kept on asking me about why the-- he kept on saying it was the 'docs' that were recommending to him that status, and not the facility.

So, I started to notice a discrepancy in what I was-- in the information that I was receiving, and that is whenever I became concerned.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you started, I guess, noticing a discrepancy between what you were hearing from Captain Hocter and what you were hearing from Master Sergeant Blenis--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--who did you raise the concern to next?

Pfc. Manning

After Master Sergeant Blenis?I raised it with you in particular.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did you do that?

Pfc. Manning

Well I mean, I just said-- I explained that there was this-- I explained to you that there was this odd-- because there was this discrepancy with Captain Hocter-- I would talk to him-- I mean, at least once a week as well as Master Sergeant Blenis once a week.

And, I really wanted to get off of this status.I mean didn't feel it was-- I know I am not a doctor or anything, but I just-- I wanted to get off of this restrictive status, andat least be allowed to use, you know, sleep on, you know, sheet-- sheets-- with sheets and blanket, and everything else-- and have soap in my cell, and things like that.

Those were things-- those were high priority in my mind, in terms of improving my quality of life.So, I wanted-- that was a goal that had I set myself.And, I wanted to figure out how to achieve that goal. And, yes I raise it with you in particular, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what were you hearing from your legal counsel about that?

Pfc. Manning

There was various different options, and things like that.And, I was hesitant because you know, I was sort of scared but-- I didn't want to sound like I am complaining, or anything like that.

I don't like to sound like I am quote 'whining' unquote, you know.And, I didn't want to come off that way, so I informally-- I remember you stated-- I remember you stating-- you saying that you-- cause there were possible routes, but I still wanted to see, you know, if I could get, you know, the doctor, Captain Hocter, and the facility commander-- as I understood, who had that eventual-- eventual role of making that determination for POI status.

As I understood it in that way, try to get at them to meet in the middle somewhere and allow me to change status.So, I thought I could get that by, you know, by just informally, you know, asking them, 'Hey, what do I need to do?' and things like that.

Defense (Coombs)

And what was Gunnery Sergeant Blenis telling you, you were doing wrong at that point [missed two words]?

Pfc. Manning

Well, nothing.He didn't have any disciplinary-- in terms of disciplinary issues and things like that, he didn't raise any thing else.I have-- He just-- He kept on asking about, and this is a quote, you know, 'What are you saying to the docs?'I mean, 'Why? What is going on with the docs and with your status and everything else?'

So, you know, he didn't give-- I mean he said that I was doing great.One quote that Master Sergeant Blenis would often use was, 'I wish I had a hundred Mannings.'You know, 'You're great,' you know, 'You're not a disciplinary issue.You're not,' you know, from his perspective-- from his personal perspective, '...a flight risk,' or anything like that, so.He didn't-- He didn't-- I didn't get the vibe that he understood what was going on either.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so during this time period.How often were you seeing Captain Hocter?

Pfc. Manning

I think it was once a week at that point if not.I think at most one every three to five days.

Defense (Coombs)

And, where were your-- how long were your visits with Captain Hocter?

Pfc. Manning

At least-- they were usually an hour long-- sometimes more, because of that.I wanted to talk to somebody, so I could have someone to interact with, and I told him-- I said-- I could say to Captain Hocter in particular, 'I realize that you have other patients, and you have other issues to deal with.You have family.'He kept on saying he had a large family.He wouldn't specify whether it was kids or not, but I knew that he wanted to be with his family, and I-- but I just wanted somebody to talk to, and somebody to talk to that had a level where we could talk, as opposed to again the subordinate, you know, detainee/guard relationship.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you were talking with Captain Hocter, again what were your conversations about?

Pfc. Manning

In general, we would just start with current events.Because, I am a current events guy.I like to know-- it's what really grounds me in what is going on in the world, you know.

I remember the oil spill had finally been cleared up at one point in the Gulf. They finally stopped that, you know it was like a-- it is just things like that-- you know, that ground-- you know, from my perspective-- you know, where the world is and everything else. It makes-- the big world, as opposed to my little cell, you know-- worry about the much broader world, sir. I mean I'm sort of forgetting what the question was.

Defense (Coombs)

No, that's fine.What did you-- when you were with Captain Hocter, did you ever raise the issue of what Master Sergeant Blenis was telling you?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I would be like, 'Well the counselor is saying that'-- and, I told him that the counselor kept on saying that he was making-- then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, Master Sergeant Blenis, was saying-- 'kept asking about your recommendations,' and I said-- and I kept on asking him, 'Well, why are you recommending me to stay on POI?' and he'd be like, 'I am not recommending you to stay on POI,' prevention of injury. And, then I wasn't sure who was telling the truth or where the information was.-- where the discrepancy was.

Defense (Coombs)

So, at that point you were not sure if you could trust Captain Hocter or Gunnery Sergeant Blenis?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I thought-- I thought Captain Hocter being-- I don't-- I don't-- you know, I was in a cell all day, so my mind wandered, and things like that.

But, I started wondering of Captain Hocter was telling the truth about his recommendations-- whether or not he was just trying to keep me feeling good about myself.

Defense (Coombs)

Between July 2010 and December of 2010 what was your life like, if you could describe it for the Judge, overall quality of life?

Pfc. Manning

Between? Can you repeat those time periods?

Defense (Coombs)

July 2010 to December 2010.

Pfc. Manning

Okay, so. It was-- I would say at first, it was a big improvement to arrive in-- in-- stateside-- big huge.

I felt great about being there, you know. I have a-- you know, the things I took for granted down range, you know-- or that I took for granted stateside before going downrange and coming back-- or [missed word] there again-- running water and air conditioning and things like that.

But, then-- then it started to-- as I was there longer-- and started to drain on me. I was getting more and more tired-- And, you know, I had access to my family now at this point, and access to some idea of what was going on in the world.

So, I started to-- I started to feel more-- like I was outside-- I started to feel like I was mentally going back into sort of Kuwait mode and that, that-- that lonely, you know-- dark black hole of a place, you know-- mentally I mean.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever go back to that place?

Pfc. Manning

No, I did not.I fought every inch to avoid the event horizon of that and accomplished that I think.

Defense (Coombs)

How difficult of that time was it for you?

Pfc. Manning

Being in a...?

Defense (Coombs)

Just having that struggle, how difficult was that for you?

Pfc. Manning

It was easier over time, sir. Before-- before the 2011 threshold.

So, by-- by Christmas time I was feeling a little bit better.Just, I mean-- I mean, I am not a big fan of that timeframe just cause it is the solstice and its really dark and I like the light-- or like sunshine and things like that, sir.

I am not a big fan of winter but that is why I don't really like that timeframe, but.

But, you know, I wasn't getting depressed or anything.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Do you recall Captain Hocter placing you on POI during that timeframe because he was worried about you getting depressed?

Pfc. Manning

I was-- something about-- I mean, I know you testified yesterday about that-- there was the twitter incident, as one of the-- as the DBS [Duty Brig Supervisor] referred to it at the time.

He asked me if I was alive-- [missed a few words] and he was like, 'Oh yeah, there is a report on twitter that you're dead.'I was like, 'I am not dead' to the Duty Brig Supervisor at the time.

And then he left, and I then I think it was a couple days later that Captain Hocter brought it up, but he had-- I don't know-- I don't know when I was placed on POI before that, but I just kind of chuckled that after I found out more information about that report or whatever it was-- and I didn't hear about it or anything.

I knew that they had taken away TV privileges, but they often would change-- they would often change the schedule, so that way I couldn't see current events programs or watch news and things like that.

I always tried to-- to figure out how I can get the-- get the news type programs on-- things like that, you know-- in terms of the schedule-- and schedule of calls and things, but they would avoid me watching, you know, those types of shows, sir.

And, they-- they-- they just plain removed the television at that point, and I was-- I wasn't happy about that, but I thought it was for a completely different reason.

I thought is was just a total misunderstanding on their part about me having access to a TV,

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Now let's talk about some of the behavior that the Brig apparently documented of yours.And, I want from your perspective to tell the Judge why you were doing it and what you were thinking.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

You were observed sword fighting imaginary characters in your cell.Do you recall that?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean I certainly do something that looks like that on occasion.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why were you doing that?

Pfc. Manning

Again, just bored, you know there is not a lot going on.There is not a lot to do.

And, I know that the-- I knew that the guard was watching, so I didn't-- if he didn't have a problem with it in terms of opening-- in terms of opening the door and, you know, coming out and poking his head out and saying, 'Stop doing that,' then I didn't-- then it usually wasn't an issue.I didn't-- from my-- from my vantage point.

But, I admit it.I could do things that look like that.I mean, from my-- I don't know-- I don't know if I was imagining that I was sword fighting, but I certainly did actions that looked like that.

Defense (Coombs)

What about being observed lifting imaginary weights in your cell and displaying actual strain and exertion when you are doing that?

Pfc. Manning

Well, if you do it a lot, I mean, I think that is resistance training.I have no idea if that is what it is or not. I mean I don't know-- I don't know when that was-- that particular incident was-- if there was an incident report or anything.But, for that, I haven't seen it. But a--

Defense (Coombs)

--were you ever told by the guards to stop doing that?

Pfc. Manning

No. I was asked-- I remember Gunnery Sergeant-- then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis stated something to that effect and I explained it to him, but nothing was ever brought up with that.

Defense (Coombs)

What about staring in the mirror and making faces at yourself?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. The most entertaining thing in there was the mirror. [laughs] It interacts with-- you can interact with yourself in there.So, I spent-- I spent quite a lot of time at the mirror.

Defense (Coombs)

And, again why were you doing that?

Pfc. Manning

Boredom. Just sheer, complete, out of my mind boredom.

Defense (Coombs)

There also is a report of you being observed licking the bars of your cell while you were apparently sleepwalking. Do you recall that?

Pfc. Manning

I have no idea what that is about.I don't.

But, again, I don't know if you have an incident report on that.I haven't seen any discovery or anything.I have seen references to it.

I don't have any specific knowledge to something of that effect, but I do recall sort of similar along those lines I guess, not sleep walking but-- television call on weekends was usually extended an hour after taps.

So, you still had access to the TV, and sometimes I would watch TV after lights out.So, I would have the TV there at a low volume.So, that way it doesn't keep people awake.

If that was authorized, and I was taking-- again-- I don't remember if it was clonazepam or Klonopin-- which one of those it was-- but I was taking that and it would make me drowsy.

So, I remember there is a-- the bars are cross thatched.They are a thatched iron bar type thing, so I would have to put my face close up to the-- to the grating to see the TV, and sometimes I would doze off while I was doing it.

And, I remember it looked like I was-- I remember Corporal-- it Corporal Sanders that stopped me at one point, and he said that, 'Don't eat the bars!' you know, 'They are not eatable.'

He said something to that effect. So, I stepped away from-- so I leaned back and I went away from the bars.I don't know anything about that-- I don't know if they are the same incident at all, sir.I speculate.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, then there was another incident of you playing peek-a-boo with yourself in the cell mirror or you also playing peek-a-boo with the guards in the observation booth.Do you recall that?

Pfc. Manning

I was never told anything about that except by Master Sergeant Blenis after the fact, and then I said, you know, I am not-- I realize that-- I do things in the mirror don't always look-- I mean, I don't know how it looks but, the mirror was the only interactive entertainment thing, sir.

It wasn't like I was seeing somebody else in the mirror or anything like that. [laughs] It is clearly me.

Sometimes I'd make funny faces just to-- just to do something in front of the mirror. I don't know if that's-- I don't know if I was playing peek-a-boo with myself, but I was certainly would, you know, look different angles at, you know, my face and things in terms of shaving and also other stuff-- and you know just general care and wear and tear, and looking at myself in the mirror, because there is not a lot else to do.

Defense (Coombs)

Did any of the guards ever express any concern directly to you about any of this behavior?

Pfc. Manning

Nothing specific.If there was something-- if I was doing something that concerned them, they would usually open the door immediately, and-- and come out, like it was-- like there was a fire going on-- or something like that.And, there-- those particular incidences weren't the same. I don't recall those.They didn't tell me about those until after the fact.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, starting in December timeframe, did you start to complain more about your confinement conditions?

Pfc. Manning

I did. In early December it was still informal.So, I was-- I was-- I started to voice my concerns with Master Sergeant Blenis.

I would-- I would be like, 'I don't understand where this discrepancy is,' and I voiced the concern to Captain Hocter as well, who would usually advise me, because he didn't feel like-- he didn't feel like the facility was going to listen his recommendations.At least, that is what he conveyed to me in these sessions.

He didn't feel like the facility trusted him.But-- So I complained more with-- with-- through Master Sergeant Blenis, and I don't recall if I ever brought it up with Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart.

But, I did ask about it at point in time in early December through then Master Sergeant Blenis.

Defense (Coombs)

[I believe I missed a question.]

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Master Sergeant Papakie.Whenever he did the rounds, he let me relax once, sir.That is the opportunity.When you are standing at parade rest, you are not really allowed to say anything.Whatever they tell you to relax, you can speak slightly a bit more freely.

So, I used that opportunity to raise my concern about it.I didn't put in-- what's called a-- they refer to it as a-- as a 'chit'.

It's a-- it's a Department of Defense Form 5-10, which is-- is a way that you convey communications apart from those through your counselor.

I filled out one of those forms.I gave it to the guard.I don't recall who it was.I think it was Corporal Miller.Again, I am guessing.

And, I gave him a- a chit, as they call it.And, a-- it was a general complaint about, you know, being on prevention of injury status.

I don't recall anything ever coming back on that.So, as I-- this, discussion with you-- and towards the end of December and early January I put in another one. This time to the facility commander-- and that staffing level as opposed to, you know, just a through the counselors.

So, I went up to the-- this one went through-- and I was worried that they might have lost the other one.So, I made a secondary copy.I wrote 'copy' and I wrote the exact same thing.I put 'copy' and I initialed it.It's in a box with Captain Tooman somewhere.I don't think that was part of anything-- to discovery or anything.

Defense (Coombs)

So, these 5-10's, what were you using these for?

Pfc. Manning

I put it in.So, that way I could convey to the commander the thought, and I looked into the rules and regulations of the facility about C&A [Classification and Assignment] board and everything else.

And, I-- I specifically requested for-- to have a C&A board, or for one to convene, or for-- or for me to be in one.I don't remember the exact wording of it.

But, I put it into-- I made sure that it went into the commander-- with two mailboxes on a cart.That were-- and I made sure that were brought in, and I physically put it in myself through the feed tray while Lance Corporal Miller-- not Lance Corporal Miller-- Lance Corporal Bell was the guard that brought it in.

And, that was the-- that was like early January.It was like the 5th of January or 6th or 7th.Somewhere around that timeframe.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Do you recall also filing with my assistance an RCM [Rules for Court Martial] 305(g) request to Col. Coffman [the Special Convening Authority] on 13 January [2011]?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. That was a week and a half after I put in that-- that commander request.I didn't receive anything back on it.

So, we went to the next administrative-- I mean, exhausting, in terms of exhausting administrative remedies.We went to the next one.And, that was-- that was the chain of-- that was the chain of command on the Army side.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what did you ask Colonel Coffman [Special Court Martial Convening Authority ] to do?

Pfc. Manning

I-- through counsel-- through you, sir, I asked him to review-- at least review my confinement conditions and see if they were necessary and if there-- there could override-- I don't recall the exact phrasing of the-- of the document, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did you receive a response from Colonel Coffman?

Pfc. Manning

Through, again, you.You conveyed to me that there was a response.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what was the response?

Pfc. Manning

The response was that-- that it was either non-necessary or that a cursory look into it was appropriate and they found that this was proper.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall filing with my assistance an Article 138 complaint on 19 January 2011?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. I also recall that it was the same day as command visit in which I-- it might have been the same day that I had a command visit with Captain Casamatta, and raised up the issue of the fact that my 5-10's were not getting returned or answered to Captain Casamatta.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what issues were you concerned-- raising in your Article 138 complaint, in general?

Pfc. Manning

In general, just the confinement condition that I was under, and the fact that I felt that, you know, given what I was-- given the information that I had I felt that there was a discrepancy between the-- through you, you know the-- but in my opinion there was a discrepancy between the mental health professionals and Captain Hocter along with Colonel Malone-- [missed word] Colonel Malone and what they-- what they saw, as opposed to what the commander was doing, and I felt it was being done improperly.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, you indicated that you started to research and you made a 5-10 request to go to a C&A board?

Pfc. Manning

That is correct, Sir.

Defense (Coombs)

When was the first time you went to a Classification & Assignment board?

Pfc. Manning

I don't remember the exact date, but it was a week or two after all this.

So, after the command visit.I remember there was a-- I was slated for a C&A board.It was an end of January 2011.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did you find out about your ability to go to this board?

Pfc. Manning

It is in the rules and regulations for the facility.I knew that they-- I knew that-- I didn't-- I don't remember if-- if it is stated-- stated in the rules and regulations how often it occurred, but I felt like I-- I realized that I had the opportunity to ask for one if I felt it was necessary.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did you appear before the board?

Pfc. Manning

I did, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, who was at the board to the best of your recollection?

Pfc. Manning

Gunnery Sergeant-- then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, Gunnery Sergeant Fuller, and another Staff Sergeant NCO.I don't recall exactly who it was.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you got in from to of the board, what happened?

Pfc. Manning

[Missed a few words]I was in full restraints.I was put into the conference room-- the same room where I would talk to the mental health counselors.

And, I sat down, and then they said that, 'The C&A board is convened, you have the floor, detainee Manning.'

Well, I reported in first.So, 'I-- I detainee Manning, my number.'My number at the time '10075 reporting, Gunnery Sergeant.'

Defense (Coombs)

And then once they said, 'You have the floor,' what happened?

Pfc. Manning

They sat me.Well, I sat down.I didn't-- I was like, 'Okay. I don't know how this works.'I mean I-- that was the first thing I said.'I don't know how this works'...in terms of the formality of the board.

They said, 'Just say what you feel about how you are confined-- confinement classification. You asked to meet here,' and then I ended up asking a lot of questions.

Defense (Coombs)

What questions were you asking?

Pfc. Manning

I realized that it was more of an adversarial thing.That they-- that they had-- that they had their conclusion among themselves in terms of the fact that I was staying on to POI status, and that it was my job to argue against that.

So, I ended up asking questions, because I didn't know-- I didn't-- I didn't know what I didn't know.So-- so I asked them, you know, what their feelings on the recommendations were, and how they were being met, and how processed worked to Gunnery Sergeant Fuller particularly.He was the most vocal out of the answering.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did they respond to your questions?

Pfc. Manning

They did. I asked about how the process worked from their vantage point.They explained to me about the recommendations-- that they make recommendations to the commander.

That those recommendations are based on information that they received through either the mental health professional, the-- the behavior reports, the watch's' logs, and all sorts of other stuff.

I don't recall the exact, you know, quotes or anything.Just a lot of the-- 'We use...' and I am quoting Gunnery Sergeant Fuller, 'We use a lot of different information points to put a picture together and recommend it to Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart, and he-- and we only make a recommendation.

'We don't-- and,' you know, 'everyone else only makes recommendations, but it is his final authority.'And, that was the way it was explained to me.

So, then I tried to swing them into recommending me to be off POI, but they, you know-- I wasn't prepared, because I didn't have any proof, and they wanted-- they wanted evidence.

They kept on saying that, 'We want evidence that you are not a harm to yourself, beyond' you know, 'you saying that you are not going to harm yourself.'

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. After this first board, do you-- Well, actually-- as part of this first board do you recall one of the board members asking you about your intake statement, 'Always planning, never acting'?

Pfc. Manning

There was a heavy focus on that, and I didn't realize-- I didn't-- I hadn't remembered that-- that statement was put down on there on that form.

I mean, I remember thinking-- cause I mean during the time whenever I went through it-- I mean, it was all fuzzy and I was-- and I had just arrived from Kuwait and everything else also, and I was filling out all this paperwork and everything else.

You know, I remember being told, you know-- you had to fill something out.And, I didn't-- and I explained that.I conveyed that-- that story to Gunnery Sergeant Fuller and so he's like, 'So you-- So you lied?!'

And I-- and I was like, 'I don't-- I don't know if it's a false statement.I don't know.I was told to put something down, and I put something down without really thinking about it.That felt-- it just--- I mean, I felt like whatever I-- whatever I put down there didn't matter anyway, cause I was going on suicide risk anyway, sir.'

Defense (Coombs)

And what--

Pfc. Manning

--and, I explained that to Gunnery Sergeant Fuller and-- and so he was-- it becomes-- it became an inquisition about whether I meant it-- whether I could be trusted with anything I said ever based upon that-- that confusion.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall as part of that kind of inquisition, Gunnery Sergeant Fuller saying, 'Well if we can't trust you are telling the truth at that time, you said something false, how can we trust that you are telling the truth now...'

Pfc. Manning

Correct.

Defense (Coombs)

'...when you are saying that you are not going to harm yourself?'

Pfc. Manning

Correct. And, you know, I'm like, 'Well, I don't know.I don't know how you do that.I don't know how you leave that out.From my vantage point, you know I'm-- I'm the-- I'm the-- I'm the detainee. I mean there's not-- there is not a lot that I can do from my vantage point.'And, that I understood from that-- from that-- from that perspective.

You know, it was-- I just kept-- I mean, it just felt weird because it was-- it was-- it felt so long ago that that-- that that was.And, that was brought up.

And, that was so long ago.And, I was like, 'Well, what about now?'And then-- and then it went and it kept on coming back and forth to, 'Well if we can't trust you then, how can we trust you now?'

It was just very-- it was just a very unsettling and adversarial moment. I felt-- I felt like I was sort of put on the spot and being interrogated at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, aside from this one time when the C&A board quizzed you about this statement, did-- did anyone else come up and talk to you about this statement?

Pfc. Manning

Before that?

Defense (Coombs)

Right.

Pfc. Manning

Not to my recollection.I don't recall that-- I don't recall Master Sergeant Blenis raising it as an issue.

I don't recall Chief Warrant Officer Averhart Four raising it as an issue.I didn't-- I spoke to him very-- at the point in time, I spoke to him very rarely.

And, Captain Hocter never said anything about it.So, those were the people-- those were the people that I talked to about these types of issues, and Colonel Malone, and they never really raised that.

That was the first time that, that-- that, that moment ever really popped up, and I remembered, 'Oh, yeah.I [missed word] that day.That did happen,' you know.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, how many times did you appear in front of the C&A board?

Pfc. Manning

There was-- they was another two times after that.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when generally from your memory, when was the second time?

Pfc. Manning

The second time was as soon as I got the results from the Article 138 complaint-- the justifications and I mean, basically, like-- sort of like a discovery packet.

It was attached to it with enclosures and things along with the actual response. Like the justifications of the response.And, I looked through it, and, you know, it just didn't, they would-- they would-- I felt like, you know, again, I am not an attorney.I felt like they just quote [missed word], like the raw data from-- there was a lot of these different reports from-- I remember there was-- I remember going through this list of different things, like, 'Oh, he's'...you know...'Oh he is doing well.' You know...'being respectful courteous.'There was just a list of different notes that Master Sergeant Blenis had made, and I just didn't-- I just didn't see anything adding up from my vantage point in there.

So, I-- So I went in with-- armed with those documents.They allowed me to bring those in.And, I felt like...I felt like, 'Oh, well now that I have--' you know, 'now that I have this evidence,' you know, 'I am going to be able to-- I am going to be able to persuade the C&A board.'I felt pretty confident about that.

Defense (Coombs)

So, how did you use this evidence, the next time you went in front of the C&A board?

Pfc. Manning

Well I came through-- I remember I started reading through it verbatim-- through them, you know-- through all the-- through all the points, including the-- including the ones-- ones that, you know-- that weren't necessarily, you know-- completely [missed word] all that way.

I don't recall exactly which ones they were or anything like that, but, you know, I read through them verbatim, and Gunnery Sergeant Fuller stopped me and, you know, asked me what I was doing, and I said, you know, 'I'm just-- I'm just reading through what I,' you know, 'with the things that,' you know-- and Gunnery Sergeant Blenis-- Master Sergeant Blenis was also on this board, so, you know, Master Sergeant Blenis or Gunnery Sergeant Blenis-- quote 'Gunnery Sergeant Blenis' unquote was saying in these-- in these reports or in these counseling notes and, you know, I was just trying to-- and I was just trying to convey to him that the-- I feel that those-- that, that could be justifications and such given that I didn't have the notes from Captain Hocter.

I said you know, 'I am pretty sure that Captain Hocter can back that up as well, and say that I am being respectful, and being courteous, and trying everything that I can to get off of this status.'I mean it is the only focus, at that-- at that time it was the only focus that I really had to [missed word]-- there was nothing going on with the case or anything.So, that was my focus was-- was just trying to improve my status.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you were using Gunnery Sergeant Blenis' own assessments of you--

Pfc. Manning

--Right.

Defense (Coombs)

--at the board did you get a sense that, that was persuasive at all to the members?

Pfc. Manning

Ah, no.

That was whenever I realized that the-- the-- that they weren't-- that they had already read these things.They already have these documents.

I wasn't sure if it was just Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart answering those, and the C&A board not being privy to them.

I mean I knew that the counseling notes that Gunnery Sergeant Blenis-- I didn't know what information they looked at a part from data points and all this other stuff.

I didn't know what specific documents they were looking at there, but I felt that these were-- they were convincing.

I felt like I could convince someone with them.But, they-- they had already seen them and, you know, it was just sort of-- then they returned back to the-- to-- I remember they raised that-- that question again at the intake-- the once-- the once, because I was asked three times.

You know, 'You were asked-- you were asked three times about whether you wanted to commit suicide.Two verbally and one written, and on the written one you wrote down, 'Always planning, always-- always--'

Defense (Coombs)

--'planning, never...'

Pfc. Manning

'Always planning, never acting,' you know, and-- and I remember being like, 'Well I said no.I am not suicidal.'And then they are like, 'Well, there is a discrepancy so that-- so we are not sure if we can trust you.'

Defense (Coombs)

Now, after this did you-- you said you went a third time, what was your experience like the third time you went in front of the board?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean I was-- I was-- I went in with the same sort of-- I don't recall-- I think it was a couple weeks after that, because I felt like I wanted to simmer-- let that simmer down because the-- because these boards were quite heated.

They got pretty heated on their end, and so I felt-- you know, I felt sort of taken aback.I mean I was more prepared the second time, but I still felt in the end I was getting-- I felt in the end it ended up being like an interrogation over the question-- over the question on the piece of paper and then, you know.

I kept on trying to drive it out of there, but it kept on coming back to that.So, I came to the third time, and, you know, I was like, you know, I don't really have-- I mean, I don't really have anything more other than I have another two weeks where I haven't had a disciplinary issue or anything.

I know that there was-- this was after the January [missed word] incident and you know-- I had Captain Hocter and Colonel Malone say that I was good to go on those. So, I didn't see-- I didn't see a continued issue of that on my end of course.And, I tried to convey that.

And, they didn't want to hear it.They told me that unless I had anything that-- that was new or that they hadn't heard before then, you know, then it was just a waste of time.

And, they didn't-- they didn't describe it as that, but-- but I mean that was the general feeling that I got back from them.

Defense (Coombs)

So, after that time period, did you ever request to appear before a board again?

Pfc. Manning

No. I did not, sir.At that point in time, I felt that like it was weighted against me.

I felt like they were merely looking for things to justify their decision that they had already made.So, they had already made the decision coming in.

Everybody-- and this is the way I felt-- was that they would come and have the board. They would meet, and then, they would look-- and then they would look for things that would justify their action, and ignore all the other things that I would talk about.

And, only focus on the things that-- that helped justify their position.So, I felt like having to go to these things was fruitless and pointless.

So, I went through the-- back to the legal channels and the Article 138 complaint and et cetera.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Now, before we go into the next area I want to cover, I would like to go ahead and take a break.I've been told that we need at least fifteen minutes.So, your Honor--

Pfc. Manning

--about.

Defense (Coombs)

--can we have a fifteen minute break?

Judge Lind

Alright. Any objection from the Government?

Prosecution (Fein)

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Alright. Court is in recess until 10 minutes after 17 hundred, or five o'clock.

ALL RISE

ALL RISE

Judge Lind

Please be seated. This Article 39(a) Session is called to order.Let the record reflect all parties present when the Court last recessed are again present in Court.Mr. Coombs?

Defense (Coombs)

Thank you, your Honor.Pfc. Manning I remind you again you are under oath, okay?

Now I am gonna ask you a few questions about an incident on 18 January 2011.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Let's talk about how that day began.Did you notice any difference in the demeanor of the guards that day?

Pfc. Manning

From around-- yes, I did.From around the latter part of the morning, so from-- usually there is a lull in activity from zero seven to zero nine until like the duty hours come in. There's a lull in activity. By the time the activities are buzzing around at the facility, people started coming in-- guards that were just watching us-- or watching me.The vibe had changed among the guards that were there at the time.

Defense (Coombs)

How so?

Pfc. Manning

There demeanor was more-- just generally more anxious and more irritable.I don't know what-- I don't know what was going on or what was causing it, but and I didn't-- I mean I didn't-- I wasn't in a position to ask or anything, but I know-- I mean I definitely noticed a change in-- I mean sometimes whenever there's like an incident going on I usually know what-- usually infer or figure out what was going on, but I had no idea.

It's just-- everybody felt-- I mean and I assumed that it was something not to do with...I just assumed that morning-- if I remember that morning correctly I just remember-- I remember not know what it was that was causing this change, but there was definitely a strong significant difference in their...in their demeanor from zero nine to 11 was whenever I really started to notice the difference, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Let's go to your rec hall. Did you notice a change when the guards came to get you for your recreation call?

Pfc. Manning

Ah, yes.

Defense (Coombs)

What time was this?

Pfc. Manning

I don't-- I don't remember what time this was.I think it was early afternoon.

Defense (Coombs)

And what did you notice different about the guards when they came to get you?

Pfc. Manning

They were a lot more-- they had a irritated voice through their Marine Corps demeanor. I could sense that there was some-- and I thought they were-- I thought they were angry at me.

I though there was sort of-- maybe it wasn't-- I mean, maybe it wasn't directed toward me, but there was like a general anger behind them that they were gonna take out on me.

Defense (Coombs)

Who are the guards?

Pfc. Manning

One of them that I remember was Lance Corporal Tankersly and I don't remember if he is Corporal or not, but I think he got promoted to Corporal eventually, but Corporal Cline.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you were taken out of your cell, what if anything happened that caused you to be concerned?

Pfc. Manning

Well, first they started-- they-- they-- they came in-- they came to my cell, and they were like, 'Do you want rec hall?' You know, I am like, 'Yeah.'And I stand at the front of the cell and say, 'Yes Lance Corporal.Yes, Corporal. I wish to proceed with my recreation call.'

And, it's like, you know-- you know, 'Stand by for...'-- you know, 'Stand by for recreation.' 'Stand by for your recreation call.'It was just a change in their voice.

And then this continued as they were putting restraints on me.They-- they put me on-- on-- I put myself on the rack, and they were like-- and then they said, 'Put your head against the rack...' or '...put your head against the wall.'

And, then they put the restraints on me, and they just-- It was just a general change in the demeanor.They put it tightened.They put their leg irons slightly tighter than normal.And, I asked them, you know, 'Are you...?' you know, I remember asking them if they were irritated or if I was doing something wrong or something like that-- to them, as they were putting me into the restraints, and--

Defense (Coombs)

Did--

Pfc. Manning

--they didn't respond to me.

Defense (Coombs)

Did the guards ever give you any inconsistent orders or correctors?

Pfc. Manning

No, not at this time.They were still giving consistent orders, but they-- they [missed a few words] tighter.

We then-- they transferred me to the recreation area.So, that's about a thirty meter walk to the recreation area. I am guessing the distance. It just felt-- it felt like thirty meters.

And, then we go to the recreation area.There is usually a chair where they set me down, so that they can put me on there. And they told me to face left, and I faced-- faced left.And, they told me-- I had another person tell me to face right.

There were another two-- if I remember-- it felt like there were like four guards there.As opposed to the normal-- as opposed to the normal number of two to three. It felt like there was four along with GM 2 [Gunner's Mate 2nd Class] Webb, who is the NCO.

Defense (Coombs)

Did they ever say and correct you for not saying their rank in response to a direct order?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, because I-- as I-- as I am speaking with one person I am saying, you know, 'Yes, Lance Corporal' or 'Aye, Lance Corporal,' you know, changing between-- because in the Marine Corps and in the Navy, 'Aye' is a response for whenever you're given a command, and you're-- you're told to execute, you say, 'Aye.'

You know, 'I am going to execute.''Aye, Lance Corporal.''Aye, Sir.'

And, then for receiving instruction-- not necessarily receiving an instruction, but for receiving to understand something you say, 'Yes.'

So as I am being told these different things, I am trying to respond to them, and I am being given all these conflicting things so I start to--So, I start to panic a little bit, because I don't know-- I don't know what's about to happen.

And I-- they've-- they've-- they've never really acted like-- I never had the guards act like that before, except for whenever I was put into the intake process they were-- for the-- I call it a 'shark attack' again, you know, basic training style-- you know, everything you do is wrong no matter what, because you have different people giving you conflicting orders, and you just execute as much as you can.

Defense (Coombs)

During this time do you recall becoming anxious and lightheaded?

Pfc. Manning

I did. I became anxious as they were taking off the restraints, and giving me the different instructions.I asked them if, you know-- I asked them to stop.

I didn't-- I mean, I might have-- I might have actually said, 'Please...'-- instead of, 'Please stop.'I might have said actually, 'Stop.'

But, you know I was-- I just wanted them to slow down a little bit, because and allow me to-- to catch my breath and understand, you know-- but they continued at it and then I-- as soon as they were removed me from final restraints and then they give me more turn orders, I, you know, I began to fall.

And, I remember GM 2 Webb in particular came at me, as I was about to fall and I thought-- and you know, I am not-- this was just my panic reaction.I thought maybe that with the irritation and everything and the fact that-- I thought I was going to be attacked or assaulted or something like that.

I mean as silly as it sounds, and in retrospect, but, you know, they didn't do anything.I thought he was just coming at me.He was just coming to-- to make sure I didn't fall, but my instant reaction was to get away from GM 2 Webb, who is a bigger guy.

So, I wanted to get away from this large person coming at me at a high rate of speed. And, I am not feeling very-- my judgment was not perfect at that time.

So, you know, I just got away and I got emotional, and I didn't-- I didn't want-- I didn't want them to come, you know, rush me out with riot gear and stuff, so I-- I said, 'Please stop,' you know, 'I am not doing anything.

I am trying to cooperate as much as I can,' and I think I-- I think at that point I stopped and I got a little bit emotional, but they said, 'We're gonna get somebody here to talk to you.'I think-- 'We're gonna get somebody here,' I remember GM 2 Webb trying to calm me down, and get this situation under control.

Defense (Coombs)

And so, once-- once GM 2 Webb was calming you down--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--what happened next?

Pfc. Manning

A number of-- of enlisted-- a large number of enlisted personnel from the facility entered in. I don't recall exactly who.

And, then Gunnery Sergeant Fuller, the Security NCOI-- NCO of the facility.I don't recall his exact-- the exact title. But, he usually dealt with security and operations.

He came and talked to me, and got up-- and I explained to him what had happened and what was going on.And, then he-- and then he said, you know 'We are gonna take care of it, and we are going to take care of you.Is there anything else you need?Do you need to talk to anybody?Do you need to talk to one of the...one of the [MD?]'Their term 'docs' again.'Would you like to speak with anybody?'

I said, 'No, I just-- I just,' you know, 'I just wanted-- I just wanted them,' and I explained that, you know, 'I felt like they were being rough with me.' Maybe not intentionally or not, but, you know, I just felt like I was being roughed around a little bit in terms of the 'shark attack' [missed a few words], sir.

I wanted to continue on with my rec as normal, and they allowed me to do that, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you continued on with your rec as normal did you have any other issues during rec hall?

Pfc. Manning

I did not, sir.I thought-- I thought everything had been dealt with at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

And then, after rec hall where did you go?

Pfc. Manning

They took me back.It was different-- there were two different guards I remember.GM 2 Webb was still the--- the DBS [Duty Brig Supervisor] at the time, but they transferred me back to my cell, and I returned back to my cell.

Defense (Coombs)

So, when you say two different guards, they replaced Lance Corporal Tankersly and Cline?

Pfc. Manning

I don't know if-- they change guards out pretty frequently, so don't know-- I mean sometimes they don't, sometimes they do, you know, I am not privy to that.

So, I don't know who, did what or why.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So when you got back to your cell, what did you do?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I went back to sitting in my usual spot.

Defense (Coombs)

And, then what happened?

Pfc. Manning

There was a lot more activity going around.In terms of NCO's walking by, going to the observation booth and things.

I mean I didn't think to much of it, apart from, you know, that there was a buzz of activity-- of increased activity.There were guards started to trickle into the special quarters area and-- and it was really quiet, but there was a lot of whispering and low voices and things-- a lot of weird things happening.

But, a lot of weird things happened all the time here [laughs], so I didn't think to much of it.

Defense (Coombs)

Did Chief CW4 Averhart ever come to your cell?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I don't recall how long afterwards-- after that it was.It was at least 45 minutes, if not, a couple of hours.

Again, it's been a long time since this happened.There was an increase in the buzz at-- in the special quarters area.And, then Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart came to speak with me directly outside my cell.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what did he say to you?

Pfc. Manning

He stopped and stood right outside my cell.And, I stood.I mean, of course, the whole housing unit is at attention for him.

And, then they didn't-- they didn't-- I don't remember if they said, 'Carry on,' or not but then he told me to, you know, he didn't tell me to relax or anything.

So I am standing at attention as he's saying, you know, 'We just had-- we just had an incident,' you know, 'Why'd you...'-- and I remember him saying something to the effect of-- of, you know, 'Why are you violating my trust?I've allowed you to-- I 've allowed you to have this recreation call, so why are you causing trouble,' and everything else.

I didn't get a chance to explain-- until after I had been sort of-- I don't want to use the term-- the best term I could think of right now off the top of my head is 'lecture'.

I don't mean that in a demeaning way or anything to a field grade Warrant Officer. But, you know, that's how I felt at the time.

Defense (Coombs)

So, he was asking you questions about what happened?

Pfc. Manning

No. No. No. He was saying-- he wasn't asking-- he didn't ask questions until later.

He said, 'Why are you violating my trust with your activities and your...? I've allowed you,'and I specifically remember him saying, 'I've allowed you to have this recreation time.I've change the special handling instructions.'

And, he told me that if-- and he went back to, if he told-- told-- as he told me before, you know, he's allowing me to-- this-- this exception-- the policy essentially and if I violated that trust, then he would put me back on, you know, put me back to having regular rec call.

And, I was afraid that he was going to take that away at that point.And, then he started asking me questions as-- assuming I was given the opportunity to-- I think Master Sergeant Papakie came-- passed by.I don't remember of that was the case or not.But, I was told to relax at some point and then he started asking me questions.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what questions was Chief Averhart asking you?

Pfc. Manning

You know, he came back to, 'Why are you' you know, 'my trust, as' you know, 'your a detainee, and you are a high visibility--'

He didn't say 'high visibility' but essentially 'a detainee at this facility that's' you know-- you know, 'Why-- why are you a detainee that wants to cause trouble?' essentially.

'Sir, I don't know.I don't want to cause-- I don't want to cause trouble.I don't want to cause-- I am trying not to cause any situations or incidents or anything like that.'I-- I apologized for any confusion and et cetera.

Defense (Coombs)

Did there come a time when you asked him why you were still on POI?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. This was maybe at least five minutes into this-- into this conversation, and it turned into a conversations.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did he respond to you?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I started, you know, being told to relax and not be at attention, I felt more compelled to be able to speak my mind a little bit, and I felt like this was an opportunity since I had the senior staff there, you know just to-- just to make one more-- to make one-- have one more change to argue and to try to keep them from effectively putting me on, you know-- to take my recreation call away, which was my concern at that time.

And, and, he was not happy about the fact that I started to-- to ask questions and state, you know, that I felt that-- that, you know-- you know, I felt that I was trying so hard and why couldn't I just get a little bit more.

Defense (Coombs)

And, how did he respond to your questions about POI?

Pfc. Manning

He-- he gave me the-- he gave me the answer that, you know, 'It's my decision. This is my facility.I am the Brig Commander,' you know, ' I am the Brig OIC [Officer in Charge].I am the Brig Commander,' you know, they don't really use the term 'Commander' by itself, but 'I am the Brig OIC,' and 'I make the decisions, and you,' and he said quite a number of times, you know, 'I feel like you violated my trust,' you know, 'in allowing you to have this privilege.'

And, I countered that with, you know, I felt that I should not be on POI.And, you know, I have put in these complaints and things, and the, you know, the 138 complaint had been put in at this time, you know, I started to talk about that.

And, he felt that I-- from what I gauge-- I mean, I think he felt insulted by the fact that a detainee in a cell was, you know, saying these things, sir. Sorry that happened.

Defense (Coombs)

And, so when you started pushing back, what did Chief Averhart do?

Pfc. Manning

What is that?

Defense (Coombs)

When you started pushing back on, 'Hey I don't feel I need to be in POI.I don't understand why I am in POI,' what did Chief Averhart do in response?

Pfc. Manning

Chief Warrant Officer-- Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart he got angry.

I mean, he was furious.I've-- I've only seen a field grade-- I've only seen a field grade officer angry twice in my life at this level.Once in-- at Fort Drum, whenever he-- somebody found out that-- about something really terrible, and this was the only other time.

And, I've-- you know it was just-- I was just blown away.I mean, I was scared at this point.He was yelling.I mean, I felt like he was yelling at me at this point.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ask him to stop yelling at you?

Pfc. Manning

I did.

Defense (Coombs)

And what did he say in response?

Pfc. Manning

I went back to attention and just listened. And, then he left and said-- he yelled-- and I remember Master Sergeant Papakie was-- was there at this time.

I am standing at attention, and he said to the guards who were standing outside the booth, and they had sort of their jaw-- a jaw drop look on them-- he said-- he turned to them and said, 'Special move. SR [Suicide Risk]'

And, I-- I lost my demeanor at that point, and then I humbled-- I mean I was like-- I can't believe, you know-- you know, I am trying to keep from losing my recreation call, and I am being put on-- I am going back to square one since I got here.

And, I almost-- I almost punch the wall.I mean I was so pissed, anxious, furious, just a lot different-- just shock, you know.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you striking yourself in the head during this time?

Pfc. Manning

No. I grabbed-- I grabbed at my head. I mean, just-- I was-- I mean, just-- I don't know how else to describe-- you know, the way I was feeling apart from, you know just, I didn't know-- I didn't know what to do at this-- I was helpless at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

So, when you said that you grabbed at your head, you put your-- your hands up to both side of your head, just above your ears, is that what you did?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. If I'm-- you know, I lost my-- I was-- I was standing at attention one second, and now I'm not.

I'm standing just losing my-- I lost my demeanor at that point.I-- I don't know if I yelled at that point.I think I did.I was just like, 'Oh, God,' or something like-- like that. Some-- some--

Defense (Coombs)

Now, how soon after this incident did you start having a conversation with Master Sergeant Papakie about what just occurred.

Pfc. Manning

Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart stormed off after he said, 'SR' or 'Special Move SR' to the guards and stormed out.

And, Master Sergeant Papakie was still there, and then Gunnery Sergeant...I don't remember the exact order of the conversations, but Gunnery Sergeant Blenis eventually came in and talk to me.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at that moment did you know--

Pfc. Manning

--then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. At that moment did you know that they were video taping you?

Pfc. Manning

I saw the video camera at some point.I did not think that they were recording the entire conversation.

I thought that they-- I saw-- I saw at some point, I don't remember where, I was like, 'Is that a video camera?' Because I hadn't seen a video camera in a very long time.So, it struck me as something odd.

I didn't even know that they had such a thing, as a hand held camera .Because there were cameras in the ceilings everywhere-- you know, in the facility, but this was the first time I had seen a digital camcorder.I thought they were [missed a word] going to happen, but I didn't think they were recording me at the time.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so.The-- the time period when Chief Averhart leaves to the time period that Master Sergeant Papakie now is there talking to you in your cell.How much time would you estimate has transpired?

Pfc. Manning

I don't recall.I really don't.Minutes.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, what we're going to do, is we are going to go ahead and to take a look at the two videos from that time period, and I am going to ask you a few questions about that.

Pfc. Manning

Alright. I've-- I've got the screen there, so.

[A video of Pfc. Manning standing behind the cross thatched bars of his Quantico cell, being forced to hand over his clothes is having the following exchange with two senior staff members and guards at the Quantico Brig on 18 January 2011.

A9X7ccZCAAAJzks Image source: Clark Stoeckley

In the video are Pfc. Manning, Master Sergeant Papakie, Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, and Gunners Mate 2nd Class Webb.

Because of technical problems, only audio was available to the press pool.The video, however, was viewable in the courtroom.

A transcript of the video was available in the defense Article 13 motion. I have left some speakers that I could not name labeled as they are in the Article 13 motion, vis. 'redacted' or 'XXXXXXXXXX'.]

Master Sergeant Papakie

I know what you're getting at, ok? I'm telling you that we're not outside the rules and regulations of anything that we're doing. Period. We're not. So I need your clothes.

Pfc. Manning

That's fine, sir. [Manning strips to his underwear. The rest of the conversation takes place with PFC Manning in his underwear].

XXXXXXXXXX

Skivvies say on?

Other Guard

yes. ... leave those on.

XXXXXXXXXX

We're going to get someone over here to talk to you. ... You have one mattress, right? You have the one suicide blanket, right?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. Yes, sir.

XXXXXXXXXX

Shower shoes are fine. Let's get the doc over here. XXXXXXXXXX Sit down and see what's going on. Alright? I need you calm right now, alright? The escalation in your demeanor, alright, weighs us on the side of caution. Do you understand that?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, MSGT.

Defense (Coombs)

Just for a moment. This person here that is closest to the camera, who is this?

Pfc. Manning

That is Master Sergeant Papakie.

Defense (Coombs)

And the person that is now facing you, that is just in front of him, who is that?

Pfc. Manning

That is then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis-- Master Sergeant Blenis.

Defense (Coombs)

And the taller gentleman who is standing behind him, who is that?

Pfc. Manning

That is GM 2 Webb, Gunners Mate 2.It's an E5 position.

[Video resumes.]

Master Sergeant Papakie

The best way to explain that to you is you had an outburst. You were moving around. You almost punched a wall. You're kind of throwing yourself around in the cell. To make sure you don't hurt yourself we're putting you on a suicide risk status. We're upgrading your status.

Pfc. Manning

But I'm not a suicide risk.

Master Sergeant Papakie

That's not for me to decide. I have to make sure, the brig officer has to make sure, that you're taken care of.

Pfc. Manning

I understand MSGT.

Master Sergeant Papakie

In the manner that you're not going to hurt yourself. Right now, I don't know that. With the display I saw right now, I'm not comfortable with. He's not comfortable with. Until we get something otherwise, this is how it's going to be.

Pfc. Manning

Why was I on, why was I on prevention of status for almost 6 months?

Master Sergeant Papakie

[chuckles to himself] I know this is no secret to you ... I have plenty of documentation. Plenty of documentation based on things that you've said, things that you've done. Actions – I have to make sure, we have to make sure, that you're taken care of.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, MSGT.

Master Sergeant Papakie

Things that you've said and things that you've done don't steer us on the side of "ok, well, he can just be a normal detainee." They make us stay on the side of caution.

Pfc. Manning

But what about recommendations by the psychiatrist to remove me off the status?

Master Sergeant Papakie

Who's here every day? Who's here every day? We are. Who sees you every day? That's all he is, is a recommendation. We have, by law, rules and regulations set forth to make sure from a jail standpoint that Manning does not hurt himself. Maybe from a psychiatric standpoint, the recommendation he's given, I get it, I got it, understand, OK? But he's not the only decision maker. A mental health specialist is not the only decision that gets made.

Pfc. Manning

I understand that, sir.

XXXXXXXXXX

However...

Defense (Coombs)

The windows down here, is that-- are those the windows that you get natural light from?

Pfc. Manning

If you put-- if you place your head up against the thatched portion where the door is--

Defense (Coombs)

Mm-hmm.

Pfc. Manning

--and you poke your eye through barely you can see the reflections, but you can't actually see the window.You can't see the window itself from inside the cell.

Defense (Coombs)

And are these the bars that they said you were licking, or appeared to be licking, when you were sleep walking?

Pfc. Manning

I assume so, Sir.

[Video resumes.]

[XXXXXXXXXX leaves and XXXXXXXXXX enters]

[inaudible]

Pfc. Manning

I got dizzy ...

XXXXXXXXXX

Wasn't dehydration?

Pfc. Manning

No, I was anxious because I didn't know why the guards were so edgy. ... They raised their voice ... And I didn't ... I was getting anxious because they were getting anxious. So I was trying to figure out what was the cause of them getting anxious. It seemed to me that they were looking for something wrong...

XXXXXXXXXX

Something wrong as in a rules violation, or something wrong as in ...

Pfc. Manning

Yes.

XXXXXXXXXX

Rules violation?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. Because I've been here for a long time, so everything becomes automatic. So I don't know if I say something and they respond. I don't know what happened. I've been in, inside so long – I don't remember the last time I was outside.

...

[Portions of the rest of the dialogue between XXXXXXXXXX and PFC Manning are inaudible]

XXXXXXXXXX

So, let's go back to when you fell down. Did you fall down or did you sit down? Or...

Defense (Coombs)

Now the camera goes inside of a room.What's the room that the camera goes inside of?

Pfc. Manning

That is the observation booth, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what we see here.I will let it go forward a little bit in a second, but is this figure here you?

Pfc. Manning

That is me.That is cell 192, and the one to right that has all of my belongings in a box there is cell 191.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, this would be the view that the guards would be able to have of you from inside the cell-- or excuse me, the observation room, correct?

Pfc. Manning

Ah, yes. Correct, Sir.

[Video resumes.]

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so let's go to the second video.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Now due to where the camera is at the audio here is really not so good.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Sir.

Defense (Coombs)

This conversation that you are having with Gunnery Sergeant Blenis from your memory, what are you talking about?

Pfc. Manning

I am just trying to talk to him about, you know-- trying to show him-- I just remember, I wanted to convey to him that, you know-- I am not trying to be a problem.

And, you know, I am trying to talk to him about POI status and everything else.

Just-- just the usual-- I mean, this-- this-- apart from the fact that we have the bars in between us, sometimes we would talk like this in the office.

This is much like the conversations that we would normally have.Except obviously I was in boxers and [missed last word].

Defense (Coombs)

And, so at this point all you have on is just your boxers?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Sir. That is correct.

Defense (Coombs)

And, Ma'am.The defense motion does its best to give an audio version of this.I don't believe this is very long, but I do believe that the audio get a little better. If it doesn't, I don't believe it is necessary for you to see all of it.

[A second video plays.Because of technical problems, only audio was available to the press pool.The video, however, was viewable in the Courtroom.

A transcript of the video was available in the defense Article 13 motion. I have left some speakers that I could not name labeled as they are in the Article 13 motion, as redacted or XXXXXXXXXX.]

Pfc. Manning

Ah, it was mixed. I mean, I was getting lightheaded because I was hyperventilating. So, I was trying to stand up. I was trying to keep from falling because I was worried that if I fell, then everybody would panic and that would make matters worse. So, I tried to stand up and I ended up falling...

...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Take me from end of rec hall to ... where we are now ...

Pfc. Manning

Ok, yes, I started, I got in here and it was normal. And then I started reading my book. And then, I want to say it was MSGT [inaudible] that was the first to show up. And then he came in and was asking me all these questions. I was, ah, trying to figure out how to word the answers without causing any more anxiety. I was trying to figure out ways of not sounding, or not being construed as ... ways that things weren't going to be construed so that ... just trying to figure out ways in which I could tactfully say what I was trying to say without violating any rules and regulation or raise any concern about ...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Concern's already raised... [inaudible]

Pfc. Manning

Yes, but I'm trying not, I'm trying, I'm trying to avoid the concern, and it's actually causing the concern. I mean, cause, I'm getting ... every day that passes by, I'm getting increasingly frustrated, I'm not going to lie. Because I'm trying to do everything that I can not to be a concern, therefore I appear as though I am causing more concern. Or I ... Or it seems that I'm causing more concern or everybody's looking for something to cause concern. So that's what frustrates me. ... Trying to work out the most politically correct way of ...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

[largely inaudible] Let's go back to today. ... The anxiety here, today. That's not the first time it's happened since you've been in confinement. As far as I know, it is the first time it's happened since you've been here ... but a similar situation ...

Pfc. Manning

I wasn't, in Kuwait, I had no idea what was going on generally.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

But, would you say it was similar situation?

Pfc. Manning

No, no. The situation that happened today was more of ... you know, I'm lucid and aware and just trying to figure ... It's just a question of trying not to appear like I was in Kuwait. Because that's my main concern every day, is how do I get off of POI status? How do I get off of POI status? When will I be taken off of POI status? What is being used to justify the precautions? You know ... What concerns, you know, what am I doing that's concerning [inaudible]? So I'm constantly trying to figure out, run through all of those things. And trying to make sure I'm not doing anything...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

[inaudible] ... As time goes on, we have less of a concern, ok?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, GYSGT. But the restrictions were still in place. And I was ...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Right. And we continually... We understand it's not normal that we have someone in POI for this period of time...

Pfc. Manning

Yes.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

It's not [normal] ... I guess we'll just leave it at that. So as we go on, we're going to lessen your restrictions. They're still be restrictions in place ... [inaudible] But I would have to disagree with you as far as what happened today happened in Kuwait ... anxiety attack ...

Pfc. Manning

No, in Kuwait, I wasn't lucid. I had... [guard interrupts]. It was like a dream...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

But, they both ultimately ended up in you having an anxiety attack ... controlled fall, but ...

Pfc. Manning

No, I don't remember falling in Kuwait at all.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Well, I can tell you, that's what was reported to us ... none of us were there [refers again to PFC Manning's suicide status Kuwait] ... Us, as a facility, we have to always err on the side of caution, okay. And not just the side of caution, but over-caution. Especially when we're talking about suicide, okay? Nobody's saying you're going to kill yourself, alright? [inaudible] But we always have to be more cautious than that. But you're saying that 'nobody else is on suicide watch.' The thing is what happened in Kuwait, what happened today ...

Pfc. Manning

Those are totally different. I understand, I understand, I understand, where you're getting that ... from the documentation. I mean, I quite, I know where I am. I know I am ... I know I am at Quantico base facility. I know that I'm at a brig. I mean, I'm lucid and aware of where I am. I'm not ...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

You asked [MSGT] a question ... about why you're on suicide watch, I'm trying to answer that question, okay? Did I answer that?

Pfc. Manning

Uh – no. No, with context. Because the fact that ...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

[inaudible] Did you understand that?

Pfc. Manning

I would have understood had ... had I not been ... I would have understood had ... had I not been ... I mean, I'm trying to think of how to word this proper ...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Provoked? Provoked?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, a little. I feel like the facility, honestly, I feel like the facility is looking for reasons to keep me on POI status.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Inaudible. I can tell you 'no'...

Pfc. Manning

I mean, at least not at the staff level, I'm thinking the CO [Commanding Officer] – me, myself, personally.

Master Sergeant Papakie

Inaudible ... From a logistical standpoint, it's a burden on us. ...

Pfc. Manning

Yes, MSGT.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Nobody finds that as a joy. It's not a punitive thing, I understand why someone would see it as a punitive thing because restrictions placed [inaudible] ... I can tell you that ... since you have been here ... I wish I had a hundred Mannings ...

Defense (Coombs)

Did you hear there-- where he told you-- Gunnery Sergeant Blenis said as far as your conduct, 'I wish I had a hundred Mannings'?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, I did.I heard very often from then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis.

[Video resumes.]

Pfc. Manning

And that's what... And that's where I don't understand why the continuation of the policy and restrictions beyond the time recommended by you and the psychiatrist. I mean the psychiatrist, is saying. I mean, I've got my own forensic psychiatrist that's saying now that the POI status is actually doing psychiatric harm and not, you know, and it's actually, you know, increasing my chances, rather than decreasing...

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Did you feel like that two weeks ago?

Pfc. Manning

What's that?

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Did you feel like that two weeks ago?

Pfc. Manning

Yes GYSGT.

Gunnery Sergeant Blenis

Uh, two weeks ago, I asked you, like, how you were feeling and you said you were fine, do you remember that?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, and I still feel fine. I mean, I feel, I feel fine, but at the same time, I've been putting in, I've been putting in...

[Second video ends.]

Judge Lind

Is there any copy of this that has a better audio?A clearer audio? [Missed a few words.]

Defense (Coombs)

Your honor, [missed a sentence]. [Missed] tried to provide a transcript. [Missed a few words] can't find it.But, this is the best copy that we have been provided.

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Ma'am.If it is listened to on an individual computer, it substantially clearer than over loud speakers.

Judge Lind

Alright. Thank you.

Defense (Coombs)

[to Judge Lind]

It is-- I believe attachment 25 of the defense's motion.

[to Pfc. Manning]

So, Pfc. Manning, looking at that video, what thoughts come back to your mind today?

Pfc. Manning

I mean-- I haven't seen that video in several months.So, you know-- it just brings that back, you know, the fact that I was there and everything else.

Just a-- it's weird seeing-- it's also weird seeing myself from the third person.

Defense (Coombs)

I understand.So, on that day what were you doing the rest of the day, once you were put on suicide risk?

Pfc. Manning

I sat-- out-- I had been spoken to following this by Captain Hocter and Captain Moore was also there.

And they sat down, and I talk to them.

And, and then I spent most of the day just sitting there with-- I believe there was a PFC that was assigned into-- I think it was PFC [Randy Wa?] was-- sat down right outside the cell and watched me on suicide risk.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, in the video you had your glasses.Did they ever remove the glasses from you?

Pfc. Manning

Later that day they removed the glasses.I think I got them back at some point.I don't know if it was the same day, or if it was a few days later.

I don't recall.But, I do know that for a brief period of time I had them removed [missed two words].

And, a night had them removed-- at night, or after-- after taps.

Defense (Coombs)

And, if you are stripped down to your underwear at that point, is there a time that they give you additional clothing during the day?

Pfc. Manning

Not on suicide risk, which they put me on after that. Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart put me on Suicide Risk.

Defense (Coombs)

So, for the rest of the day, you were just in your boxers?

Pfc. Manning

For the rest of my day I would-- well, I had the blanket.

I had the POI blanket.So, I just sat there on the-- on the mattress.I had the blue mattress at that point, and I just sat there with a POI blanket just wrapped over me.

Defense (Coombs)

How many days, from your memory, were you on Suicide Risk, before you were put back on POI?

Pfc. Manning

It was less than a week if I recall correctly.

I mean there was-- there was a-- there was a period of time when-- cause I remember Captain Hocter came and he said that he was going to put me on-- that he was going to recommend that I be put on POI, but not suicide risk.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, the following day that you were still on suicide risk, were you just in your boxers or did they give you additional clothing on that day-- to the best of your memory?

Pfc. Manning

They might have given me a T-Shirt.I don't recall exactly.Yeah, I probably should say, because I don't remember.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. So, let's go back to your Article 138 complaint--

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--for a moment.When did you receive the response-- to the best of your memory-- to your Article 138 complaint?

Pfc. Manning

The response to the Article 138 complaint was on-- it was February-- I don't think it was-- I don't think it was like January.That was January?I don't recall the time.I just remember there being a first.

Defense (Coombs)

Would 1 March [2011] sound about right to you?

Pfc. Manning

Yeah. It was the next month after that. So, yes.1-- Not 1 March-- I mean, late February is what I remember. That's what it feels like.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. So, the-- after you receive--

Pfc. Manning

I-- I feel like I got it before I was suppose to get it, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. After you received the Article 138 response, you also recall roughly around that time receiving notification of additional charges being referred against you.

Pfc. Manning

I had heard through you that they were coming a few weeks prior to that.

We didn't-- if I remember-- I mean, again this is two years ago, February.

But I recall, that we knew that charges were coming, we just didn't know-- we didn't know the exact specifications or anything, but we knew the general nature from trial counsel, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Now when you had filed your 138 response did you have any hope that, that may bear fruit, and result in your being taken off of MAX and POI?

Pfc. Manning

Not really.I had-- I mean I didn't know what to-- I didn't know-- I didn't really, you know-- the saying in the military is you know, 'You hope-- you hope for the-- the best, but prepare for the worst' and I was prepared for the worst at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

Was being on MAX and POI for the length of time that you were frustrating to you?

Pfc. Manning

It was frustrating, and I began to get more frustrated as it went on until it just didn't-- it just didn't matter.

There was a certain point, I don't recall when-- I mean, it might have been February or-- or-- no, it was March-- it was more towards that after the change over-- the change in command, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. And do you recall on 2 March having the opportunity to speak to Master Sergeant Papakie, the gentleman that we saw first in the video about POI again?

Pfc. Manning

On 2 March?

Defense (Coombs)

Yes.

Pfc. Manning

Okay, so that-- yes.A months an a half later.Oh this is the-- on that day Master Sergeant Papakie came by and did a check, but it-- what was unusual about this check was that he stopped by the cell and he told me to relax.

Because, normally whenever the senior staff of the facility passed through you were standing at parade rest.I was standing at parade rest or at attention any [missed word] there was an officer or senior enlisted person.

And it was generally accepted, I mean it was generally known you weren't suppose to respond except for, you know 'Yes.''Yes, Master Sergeant.''Yes, sir,' for pretty much anything, until you had been put into-- unless you were told to relax, and you were given sort of a little bit of freedom to speak.

And, he had-- he had given me the opportunity, so I decided that it's been-- it's been a little bit of time since the last time I raised this with Master Sergeant Papakie, and he seemed like-- he seemed to be in a good mood, so I started to talk to him.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what did you ask him?

Pfc. Manning

I asked him more about the comfort level of the facility as he kept on discussing.

As we discussed previously, his comfort level with particularly the commander's comfort level of, you know, me being-- you know, put onto restrictions or precautions, and-- and I remember the change over had already occurred-- this was after the change over-- and had been just enough time to where I thought after, you know, after Chief Warrant Officer Two Barnes had been put in as the new commander, I thought maybe I could given the opportunity now, I could get a chance to grab the ear of Master Sergeant Papakie, and in this moment to-- you know, talk to him about how I felt about it.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you hopeful that when you talked to him that maybe with a change of leadership, the new commander, that, that would result in you being taken off MAX and POI?

Pfc. Manning

I thought at last maybe I had the-- the opportunity to have somebody different because I-- I had felt that after the-- after the 'Special Move to SR'that I was never going to be able to convince Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart of anything, so I-- but I felt that maybe that would be different with Chief Warrant Officer Two Barnes.

Defense (Coombs)

And when you were speaking with Master Sergeant Papakie, what did he say back to you regarding your requests on POI?

Pfc. Manning

Very similar things to what he had stated in the video we had just seen.But, he was a lot more relaxed and there wasn't as much tension, sir.

It's one of the few times I was given an opportunity to speak at level with him. So, I don't have to stand at parade rest.I can sort of, you know, be myself, and maybe speak my mind, and maybe talk to him a little but about different things.

Defense (Coombs)

What do you recall him saying to him about POI?

Pfc. Manning

Particularly with prevention of injury, it went back to-- you know, 'We have concerns,' you know, 'about what happened in Kuwait,' you know, 'We are not trusting you,' you know, 'We're not...you're doing,' you know, 'You're doing what you're suppose to but then,' you know, 'there are things that we're concerned about.'

And-- and, you know I-- and, as you know-- and, I just-- I tried to plead with him just a little bit about, you know, making small changes to the POI, you know-- just maybe chop at-- chop away at it between the different-- maybe they would have sort of a-- if I couldn't get prevention of injury, you know, removed, maybe I could chip away at different things, and have a gradual change over the-- over a period of weeks or months.

And, he said that he might convey that toChief Warrant Officer Barnes.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever convey to him any comments about your underwear?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. There was a moment in there where, you know-- I just wanted to convey the fact that, you know, I've been-- again I kept on telling him I've been on the status for a long time, you know-- and I am not doing anything to harm myself.

I mean, I have, you know-- and it came back to, you know, 'I've been in here and yet,' you know, 'I'm not throwing myself against the walls or' your know, 'jumping up and down,' you know, 'trying to [missed word] into the toilet and drown...'you know just all sorts of different examples of how-- you know, if I-- if I was really a danger-- if I-- if I, you know-- you know, just venting a little bit about, you know-- about how if I was a danger to myself, you know I would-- I would, I am sure I would generally act out more.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever tell him--

Pfc. Manning

--and I used the underwear as an example, you know-- I said to him, you know, 'If I really wanted-- if I really wanted to hurt myself, I mean wouldn't I just use the things that are here now,' you know, 'the underwear, the flip flops. These are all-- these are all things that could,' you know, 'they could-- they could potentially be used,' you know-- you know, 'as something to harm oneself of others,' you know.

'And, when does it stop?Does it stop with removing walls?Does it stop with the padding,' you know, 'everything?Does it stop with a straight jacket?'And just-- I venteda little bit, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

How did Master Sergeant Papakie respond to you when you pointed out the fact that you could harm yourself with your underwear or your flip flops if you wanted?

Pfc. Manning

He was nodding through that and he continued on the conversation and, you know-- I don't recall when it switched over to-- I mean there was no-- there was no immediate change in the conversation.

I mean I just-- I actually thought that maybe my point had gotten across, cause he was nodding, you know-- not quite smiling from-- he wasn't a person-- a person to really smile much, but I felt like he was listening and understanding-- I mean nodding, and we continued our conversation.

Defense (Coombs)

At any point until the conversation ended, did you see from him demeanor any sort of alarm or concern, based upon what you were saying?

Pfc. Manning

No, I actually thought-- I actually thought the opposite was occurring.I thought-- I thought-- I thought I was actually getting through to Master Sergeant Papakie, so I continued.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, after this conversation completed, did anything about your handling instructions change?

Pfc. Manning

Not immediately.It was a couple hours later that they came with different handling instructions for night.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what was different about the handling instructions at night?

Pfc. Manning

They removed-- they removed my underwear, and they tookmy flip flops out of my cell for the two things that I-- that I had been-- mentioned in particular.

Defense (Coombs)

And, so when they removed your underwear at night, I imagine this was the night of the 2nd of March when you made the comment?

Pfc. Manning

The comment was made near the afternoon.

Defense (Coombs)

No, I mean the 2nd of March is when they removed the underwear from you at that point that night?

Pfc. Manning

Well they-- yes, they-- they-- they executed the special handling instruction.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what were you sleeping in then, on that night?

Pfc. Manning

I slept with my POI blankets, my prevention of injury blankets and mattress.

They took my glasses away.They took my flip flops away.They took my underwear away.They took my T-Shirt away.My sock.All of most of it.

Defense (Coombs)

Did anyone explain to you why there was a change in your handling instructions?

Pfc. Manning

I've, you know-- I've since-- I mean, you know, because of the specific-- the specificity of those two things I sensed that-- that-- I sensed what had happened.

Defense (Coombs)

But, no one actually told you?

Pfc. Manning

I don't recall.I don't recall who came by.I think it might have been Master Sergeant Blenis, then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis that kind of came by and explained to me the-- maybe it was Chief Warrant Officer Two Barnes, herself, that came by and actually told me that the-- special handling instructions.Somebody-- somebody came by and explained it to me, Sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so the next morning at the morning reveille, the morning call, what happened on that morning?

Pfc. Manning

The morning of March 3rd was the first day that I had the special handling instructions changed.

So, they called-- they announced, 'Reveille Reveille Reveille' as they do every morning at zero five.

And-- and-- I stood and I grabbed-- I grabbed the POI blanket and I stood at parade rest for, 'Stand by for count.'

They announce, 'Stand by for count.'So, I sat that for maybe two to three minutes with the POI blankets over me, sitting upright, because I wasn't allowed to lay down with the lights on.

And then I stood at parade rest with the blanket until and I couldn't see because of my glasses were taken away.

So, one of the guard-- the guard that was in the observation booth opened the door a crack and stated-- he stated or asked, 'Is that you stand at parade rest, detainee Manning?'

And I say-- I wanted to clarify, you know, if he-- if he wanted-- I requested if he wanted me to place it-- and he-- I don't recall if he said, 'You know what to do,' or something like that, but I knew, you know, I knew it was an indirect command.

So, I placed my POI blanket back on the mattress, and stood at parade rest.

Defense (Coombs)

And the time that you are standing at parade rest at that point--

Pfc. Manning

--and I said-- I said, 'No, Lance Corporal' to, 'Is that how you stand at parade rest?' I said, 'No, Lance Corporal.' I guessed at the rank, because I couldn't see him.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, went you put the blanker back and stood back at parade rest, you had no clothing on at that point?

Pfc. Manning

Yeah. I had no socks, no underwear, nothing.I had no articles of clothing.I didn't have glasses.So, no.No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, where were you standing as far as your cell?

Pfc. Manning

At the door.The same door that you see in the video, and it's right at the front of the cell. I don't know if it was 191 or 192. But at the front of the cell, Sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Was the cell door open or closed at that point?

Pfc. Manning

The cell door was closed.They don't-- I mean, they don't--I 'm on POI status at this time, they don't-- The only time they open the door is if I am in full restraints, sir.Or if there is an immediate emergency, medical emergency.

Defense (Coombs)

And, while you are standing there naked at parade rest, did anyone come out of the observation booth and direct you at that point, 'Private Manning, cover yourself with the blanket'?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, what happens next?

Pfc. Manning

Well, they announce-- because they can see-- because in the observation booth they have cameras.

They announce ahead of time the fact that alpha row door to the housing unit was about to open, and so they announce, you know, 'Stand by for count,' you know. 'Stand by for Count,' again. And then, [with a Marine Corps voice] 'Special Quarters, Attention,' or 'Ten-hun' in the Marines Corps, they don't-- I don't know how exactly they say it, but they called us to attention.

And, I stood at attention, and then the DBS, who was wearing-- who was wearing-- who was wearing the [missed word] cap, Marine Corps uniform.

So, I knew it wasn't GM 2 Webb.So, it was a Marine-- so, it was the Marine DBS passed by and did his.

And I saw the-- I can't see detail, so I couldn't see the face.I couldn't see rank. I knew it was a DBS.But, you know I saw the knife hand for the count, and then he passed by, and then-- and then everything continued as normal.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright--

Pfc. Manning

--and then they called us back to parade rest after. And, then they announced, 'Count clear,' you know.Over-- they open the door and said, 'Count clear,' you know, or, 'Carry on.'

So, I-- and, then I proceeded to sit back down on the-- on the-- one the mattress until the guard came by with my clothing and glasses.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so.The time period that you are up front standing naked and they announce the-- the fact that they are going to do the count, how long are you there standing naked either at parade rest or attention before the count is done.

Pfc. Manning

I was standing at parade rest for about three minutes.

Standing at attention for a minute and a half to conduct count, and then I was standing at parade rest for another three or four minutes until they complete the-- until they do the, 'All clear.'The DBS calls 'Count Clear' over the [missed word].

Defense (Coombs)

And, when-- and you said once--

Pfc. Manning

--[missed] at that point.

Defense (Coombs)

--you said once the count was clear then you returned back to your rack and covered yourself up with your POI blanket?

Pfc. Manning

That is correct, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, at the time that you are standing here naked, and you are doing the count.

At any point does the DBS or anyone else then say to you, 'Private Manning' or 'Detainee Manning, go cover yourself with your blanket'?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, after they complete that count, and you are sitting on your rack, with your blanket covering you.How much time goes by before they give you your clothes?

Pfc. Manning

Only about a minute or two. I mean it was fairly quickly after that.It was that they-- they waited for the count, because they brought me a razor.

They set the razor on the feed tray for-- along with my clothes for-- to shave my face, and I put it back.And, we continued on until the morning.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So then the end of 3 March, what happened?Is your underwear taken away at the end of that day?

Pfc. Manning

At the end of the night, yes, sir.At taps.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay, and again, what are you sleeping with in your bed at that point?

Pfc. Manning

The two POI blankets from-- as a carry over from the winter, and the mattress.

And, those are the only-- those are the only articles in the cell that are not affixed to anything.They're not-- a part from my person.

So, it's my person, the mattress, and two blankets, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, on the morning of 4 March, what happens?

Pfc. Manning

On the next day, they give-- they call-- they-- they-- actually my clothing-- whenever they announced, 'Reveille Reveille Reveille,' my clothing was in the feed tray-- already handing over.So, I grabbed that.I put it on.They I stood by for count.

Defense (Coombs)

So, on that morning when you were standing for count, were you naked?

Pfc. Manning

For, 'Stand By for Count' and for 'Count' I was in the clothing that I was authorized.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. And, at the end of 4 March, what happens?

Pfc. Manning

At the end of 4 March, I have-- I am returned-- it's the same procedure.

I give them my clothing, and then I have the two prevention of injury blankets, the mattress with the built in pillow, and-- and my person.

Defense (Coombs)

On the morning of the 5th of March, what happens?

Pfc. Manning

The morning of the 5th-- the third day that we-- that we did this, they called, 'Reveille Reveille Reveille'.

I snap to parade rest.The last instruction-- the last instruction that I had been given from the previous-- from the previous day, from those days of before, was not to have a blanket over me or the implied instructions.

So, I stood at parade rest.And, they placed-- and then the guard ran into my cell and placed my clothing, and then I put my clothing on, and then-- then they called count as I-- and I had-- I was-- I was just about dressed whenever they announced count.

So, I was put at attention and the DBS counted me.Then I was at.I was clothed by that time, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so.For when they-- they announced, 'Get Ready For the Count,' you were standing naked, and then somebody you said from the observation room ran out to give you your clothes?

Pfc. Manning

That is correct, sir.Yes.

Defense (Coombs)

The morning of the-- well at the ending of the 5th, I imagine you gave back your underwear again?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, we continued on with the regular procedure.I don't know how many days it was before I was given the prevention of injury blanket?

Defense (Coombs)

You mean the smock?

Pfc. Manning

--the smock.Because, I had mentioned the fact that I had to-- by this time I had, you know, I had to stand at parade rest like that.I felt it was odd.At that time, I felt it was odd.Maybe, not.I don't know what to tell them.But, you know--

Defense (Coombs)

How many times, did you ever have any other occurrences where you were standing at parade rest naked in the morning other than the 3rd and the 5th?

Pfc. Manning

No. They started to put my clothing into the feed tray at-- about five or 10 minutes before they announced, 'Reveille Reveille Reveille'.

So, as soon as the lights come on, and they announce,'Reveille Reveille Reveille,' the clothing is there.

So, I can grab it, put it on, and put my glasses on.

So, I can see what is going on, you know.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at some point you say that you got the suicide smock?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I don't recall-- I think it was the 7th.I actually got it, on the morning of the 7th, it would have been, I grabbed my clothing ten minutes before, they would have put it there before-- announcing reveille and lights on.

And, then I grabbed my clothing.I put it on that day, but that was before the smock.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, after this time period, was there ever a day in which you did not have to surrender your underwear at night, before you left to go to the JFCF [Joint Regional Correction Facility Leavenworth on 20 April 2012]?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir. They would give me my-- they would give me the smock, maybe, five minutes before they announced taps. ' 'Taps. Taps. Taps,' was what they would announce.

They would stuff the-- the smock into the feed tray.I would receive it, and I would place-- then I would put it on, and then I would undress with the smock sort of over me as a blanket.And then I would wrap it up--

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.

Pfc. Manning

--sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Before we going into our next and last section, if I could.Can we have another fifteen minute break?

Judge Lind

Any objection?

Prosecution (Fein)

No, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Alright Court is in recess then until 20 minutes to 19 hundred, or seven o'clock.

ALL RISE.

ALL RISE.

Judge Lind

Please be seated. This Article 39(a) Session is called to order.Let the record reflect all parties present when the Court last recessed are again present in Court.

Defense (Coombs)

Pfc. Manning, I again remind you that you're under oath.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. I'd like to talk to you now about your relationship with CW2 Barnes, the Brig OIC, who replaced Chief Averhart.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you recall, well she reports that your communication with her changed overtime, were you became more quiet and withdrawn.

Is that your memory of the events?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. That is correct, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why did you become more quiet with her onward?

Pfc. Manning

Well, when I first met Chief Warrant Officer Two Barnes, I realized that she was replacing and-- although she was replacing the role of the-- of being the Brig OIC.

So, and I knew that-- I mean-- and I knew sort of-- I knew generally, at that time-- I knew specifically what her role in the process of my status was at that time.

So, I felt that-- I felt that perhaps, you know, she might listen or look at things differently-- look at the-- the information involved with making these determinations-- these final determinations.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you have a conversation with were you talked about stuff?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I remember being more forthcoming at the very beginning with-- with Chief Warrant Officer Two Barnes, because I-- I mean I thought that she might-- she might look at things differently so I want to-- I certainly wanted to engage her, and-- and make her feel comfortable.

Defense (Coombs)

Now during your conversations, who else was present, besides you and Chief Barnes?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean it might have been a counselor present, the counselor, Master Sergeant Blenis or then Gunnery Sergeant Blenis, or Staff Sergeant Jordan played a small role-- a smaller role as the counselor.

But, I don't recall, and then Master Sergeant Papakie, being the NCOIC-- was the-- it's more of an Army term, but 'battle buddy' of the OIC, so.

Defense (Coombs)

And, where were these conversations taking place between you and Chief Barnes?

Pfc. Manning

The most significant one that I-- the most significant ones that I remember, were when she first spoke with me.

She actually pulled me out of my cell, and sat me down in the conference area.

We talked and she, you know, explained the fact that she was the new OIC and she wanted to talk to me, and get to sort of know me better, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, did you have another conversation with her, where you started asking her about what she needed to do to get off of POI?

Pfc. Manning

Yes [missed two or three words] almost all of the early conversations involved that questions, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at any point during the conversation did there become an issue of a conflict between you and Chief Barnes?

Pfc. Manning

I don't-- I don't recall when.I think it might have been more towards the March timeframe.Early March.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what do you recall from that?

Pfc. Manning

I remember.I started--After-- after some-- after being there for a few weeks, you know-- I started to feel like this was just a continuation of Chief Warrant Officer Four Averhart on just-- I felt like she was just-- she was looking at everything from the same-- through the same lens-- just maybe with a slightly different way of-- of carrying herself and explaining the same things, I guess.The same justifications for her-- for her decisions.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you bring that up with her?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, I did. And, I mean started to get frustrated with the whole process.

And I spent most of the time listening at first to her, and then whenever-- and I feel like I, you know-- she took me down, she sat me down.

So, I was sitting down in restraints, across from her on the table.I mean, not really 'across', but you know, we had a corner of the table.

So, you know, we are not exactly far apart from each other.She-- and then, you know, she allowed me then to speak my mind a little bit.

But, as I am speaking my mind, she stops me and she says, 'Oh, may I remind you that I am a Chief Warrant Officer Two in the Marines Corp and that you are a junior enlisted detainee,' and you know, 'the rank still applies here,' you know, and so that, you know--

And I was, you know-- I was-- I was a little frustrated, but I am not trying to be disrespectful, and I told her, you know 'I apologize that if I seem like I am being disrespectful, but I'm just trying to get my,' you know-- my sense of things across to her, you know-- to her.

And, but you know, everything that-- whenever I am going to say something, she would just say, you know, 'You are being disrespectful.' And, 'You're not,' you know, 'adhering to the,' you know, 'the policy of being respectful to me as a-- as a Chief Warrant Officer.'

So, I just felt-- sort of after that-- I didn't feel like-- I felt like anytime I spoke my mind, you know-- even if I was standing at attention and being as, you know-- saying, 'Ma'am' as many times as, you know-- I was still going to be disrespectful to her.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you apologize for the perception of being disrespectful?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, and as I just said, I apologized-- I mean, I apologized for, 'If it seems like I am coming across as disrespectful, it's not-- it's not that I am trying to be disrespectful, Ma'am.I am just trying to-- to convey my thoughts-- like to convey my opinions on things and,' you know, there was a word-- I mean, I think it was 'absurd'.

You know, I don't feel like it is inherently, you know-- disrespectful word.But that was my opinion of how I felt the conditions were at that point.

And, I feltthat the justification just seemed absurd to me.And, she found that disrespectful.And, I apologized, and I tried to find different language. And, I think the second time that phrase came out in that conversation.

Defense (Coombs)

At any point, during the conversation, did she tell you that you needed to be careful what you said, because if it did go to sentencing what you said could be used against you to hurt you?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. And, that-- I took that as a threat, not as, you know-- I took that as a threat that, 'If you-- if you continue to-- if you continue to question my authority,'this is what I am reading from it, 'If you continue to question my authority, then,' you know, 'we are going to make it look like you are being disrespectful, and being belligerent.'

I realized then that, you know-- I am dealing with a facility was-- that dealing with the facility 'at level' or trying to communicate my thoughts and opinions like that would be dangerous, at that point.

I felt-- I felt like it was-- it was-- that she was setting up a mind field at that point. That's how I felt.I mean--

Defense (Coombs)

Okay.

Pfc. Manning

So.

Defense (Coombs)

So, from that point forward, did you feel that it was in your best interest to speak with the staff at the Brig?

Pfc. Manning

I was less trustful or-- I don't know is that a word, 'trustful'?

I trusted the facility less, my trust went down for, you know-- same with Master Sergeant Blenis and Master Sergeant Papakie, and you know, just, you know--

I figured, you know, I have other channels to go through now, and those are the one's that I am going to be [missed word] upon to the Article 138 complaint.

And, I mean, if we had exhausted the remedies, and we hadn't even considered whether to extraordinary relief to the Army Court of Criminal Appeals.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. Let's-- let's talk about and incident in March of 2011, where you removed some people from your visitation list?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Do you remember how many people in general you removed?

Pfc. Manning

[Missed first word] a large number of people.I had put a version of everybody that I could I think of that I had an address or a name for on my visitation list when I arrived at the facility, and I added a couple more to it over time as people conveyed to me that they wanted to be on the visitation list.

A lot of people just didn't either show up or, you know-- and then it ended up that I just, you know-- I don't remember what the question was, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you remove a lot of people from your visitation list in March?

Pfc. Manning

In March, yes, I did.

Defense (Coombs)

And, why--

Pfc. Manning

Well, it wasn't my intent to remove a lot of people.

I intended on removing two people in particular, being my father and Mr. David House at that particular time.

A friend of mine and my father.

So, Mr. David House was a friend of mine, or not really a friend, an acquaintance of mine through another friend, that started-- that was visiting me.

And, whenever I was given the paperwork, they told me that I had to redo all the paperwork, because a lot of it contained, you know, a lot of mistakes and was out of date and so forth.

So, I just condensed the list to people that I knew were actually going to come and visit or a part from the two that I had-- that I had focused on removing, which were my father and Mr. House.

Defense (Coombs)

Why did you remove your father from your visitation list?

Pfc. Manning

My father. He had come by a few times. I don't recall the exact dates, and, you know, he had conveyed to me, you know-- we just talked-- I mean we just talked, you know, in general a couple times about things, and then-- and then I remember--

I don't remember exactly what it was, but in early 2011, and he came by, and I think-- I think it was in March, and he came by out of the blue, and it was early 2011, but he did an interview later on that day with like, I think it was PBS Frontline, or something like that.

And, I had just had this conversation with him that day about, you know, how I am glad that, you know, nobody from the family is really engaging in doing interviews or press or anything like that, and you know, 'I am glad that you aren't doing that,' and he said, 'Well,' you know, 'I don't-- I'm not going to do that,' sir-- you know, and he did that, that same day.

But, it didn't-- we didn't know this until later of course.But, whenever I found that out I just-- I didn't want to deal with my father in that sense, because I knew that he had-- I found out that he had just taken advantage of the opportunity to fly, you know-- to get free tickets to go somewhere.

Or, at least that is how I felt, so.

Defense (Coombs)

So, you didn't want people going to the media?

Pfc. Manning

Particularly, my family and-- and then the other person who I removed is Mr. David House-- because he had visited the facility a few times and I had talked to him, and I was like, you know, 'I don't want to stir up the press or anything, so please,' you know, 'just, if you are going to visit me, just realize, that we are at this level of trust, where,' you know, 'I just want you to talk to me, and be a friend,' you know, 'if you want to be my friend,' cause we were acquaintances.

We met in early, early 2010, and we had met-- we had a mutual friend, Danny Clark-- this was Daniel Clark.Clark was his name.And, you know, he had visited with Mr. Clark before, and-- and we, you know-- we had these conversations, and then I realized over time that he was-- that he was immediately going to like blogs, like to a particular blogger, I forgot her name, but she-- and then-- and then there were these discrepancies, like he was saying things that I didn't necessarily feel that were helpful for-- and especially since, you know, we were just talking about, again, how I didn't want him to go straight to the media immediately following-- immediately following, you know-- visitation with me at-- you know, I just wanted-- I just wanted somebody to talk to, you know, a friend-- to be a friend, you know-- or a family member, not somebody to-- to take advantage of that, or use it as a soap box type--

Defense (Coombs)

Alright, so.Let's now talk about 20 April 2011.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

When you are pulled out of your cell on that day, do you-- do you know where you are going?

Pfc. Manning

On 20-- on the morning of 20 April, everything had moved as normal until about zero seven in the morning. I would say.

And, Master Sergeant Papakie came by, and said, 'Get your stuff ready,' you know, 'inventory your items and everything.You are moving to Leavenworth.'And, that was what he said, so.

Defense (Coombs)

And, so on that morning then what happened?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I didn't have much stuff in my cell to begin with-- what I was transferred with.

They put me in full restraints.Moved me to the cell adjacent to me, and put me into the cell with all of my belongings and everything.

Removed the-- part of the restraints, and then I started to pack my things, and put it into a container-- like all of the soap dishes and, you know, uniforms and stuff.

And, then there was a trash bag, which I threw away a bunch of other, you know, stuff, and then-- and then they carried-- they put me back in the restraints, and moved to the out-processing and in processing area of the Brig.

And, with-- and they carried the container with all my belongings, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, then once you were out-processed from the Brig, where did you go?

Pfc. Manning

I was out-processed-- I mean, well I was out-processed into the-- the-- the in processing and out-processing area, whichever it was.

They inventoried my things, and that period, and then I-- I remember there was some Army officials particularly, Mr. Stroebel, I believe was his name.And, he had a PMG [Provost Marshal General] shirt.That's [missed word] there from Provost Marshal General shirt, and he said that-- he explained to me the process of what was going on.

That I was being transferred.And how that transfer was going to work.You know, how the flight and everything was going to work.How the timing and everything was going to work.And, you know-- that he was the-- he essentially called himself, the 'OIC of the transfer,'the Officer in Charge, sir.

But-- we then moved out of the facility, where there was a lot of-- it was like a bunch of-- there were a lot of soldier-- soldier uniforms, ACU's.

But, they were CID personnel.So they were Chief Warrant Officer Four et cetera.

But, I mean there as a lot of weird movement and stuff, and I was transferred to the Quantico airfield, in I think a [missed word] of police.

Defense (Coombs)

Alright. So, let's skip now to arriving at Fort Leavenworth, okay?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, when you arrive at Fort-- Fort Leavenworth, what happens when you start to in process at the JRCF?

Pfc. Manning

We brought-- they brought me to-- they brought me-- they brought me into the intake area directly.

So, I didn't see the outside of the facility.They brought me into basically the in processing section of the facility.

They removed my restraints.They removed-- I had some-- I had some kind of body armor on.

They removed that, and then I had JRCF personnel-- told me to face the wall, instead of parade rest. Told me what-- then I was-- then they brought me through the in processing process-- the intake process at JRCF, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, as you started to go through the in processing process, did they ever place restraints back on you?

Pfc. Manning

They did not.And, that surprised me.

They took. They removed the restraints and they brought me-- and they strip searched me, and then they showered me, and they did scars, marks, tattoos.I do it every time I come in and out.Same thing.

But, they strip searched me-- I mean, after the strip search, they showered me.

Then, they brought me out, and throughout this entire process, no restraints.

No. I am standing, you know-- I am walking freely with just the in processing NCO guiding me through the process, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

How did it feel to be walking around out without restraints?

Pfc. Manning

Awkward. I-- I was waiting for them to put me in restraints throughout the process, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And when then didn't happen, what were you thinking?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean-- I didn't think too much-- I was concerned about it, but they--

Defense (Coombs)

Why were you concerned?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean I am not used to being outside of anything without restraints at that point in time.

You know, I was expecting them, you know, to put me back on the status that I was before, you know, just at a different facility, you know.

And, then they brought me to-- it was actually.The NCO, Staff Sergeant, brought me to the-- gave me-- issued me some items, and brought me to the cell.

And, closed the door.Then, the door closed, and then I was in the cell.But, I had like sheets, blankets.

Defense (Coombs)

Yeah, what did you have in your cell at that point?

Pfc. Manning

It wasn't much that had been issued, because it's a-- there's a-- it's a several day process when they do that.

But, I had T-Shirt, shorts, a couple pairs of tan khaki-- like uniform, and sheets, blankets, pillow, and some toiletry items.

And, these were all in my cell, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what were you thinking at the point now you are now in your cell and you see all these items?

Pfc. Manning

Oh, this is completely different from Quantico Base Brig.I would-- I don't know-- I didn't know what to think of it, you know--

I thought-- I thought it was a huge upgrade-- I mean, certainly-- but, you know, there was this feeling of, the sense of-- you know, 'Okay.I know that they are gonna put the hammer down on me, you know, soon.'

I felt that coming, that sense.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you scared at this point?

Pfc. Manning

I wasn't scared at all.I mean I was just concerned, you know-- and I knew-- I had gotten use to-- I had gotten use to these procedures, and just assumed that they would be re-implemented at some point.

I thought somebody in the Chain of Command just-- there might have been a miscommunication of something, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

So, then the next morning starts and what happens?

Pfc. Manning

The next morning comes, the door opens and I am lead out-- well, nobody leads me out.

They just go over the intercom and say, you know, 'Manning. You've got medical...'

I received-- I had a blood test.I had my blood drawn, by a nurse outside of my cell, sir.There as no restraints or anything like that.I thought, again, I wasn't use to that.

Defense (Coombs)

And, you said how long was this indoctrination process?

Pfc. Manning

It was a couple days. They brought-- I mean they later, in that morning had took me out of the cell, and-- or they opened the door again.So, it just opens up.

And, then they tell me to come out, or get into-- get into my uniform.Come out. And, I go to a line up with another pretrial-- and some other post trial detainees, or inmates.

They separated us and then we were led off to a classroom for several hours.

We did this for a couple of days.They issued more items-- and fill out more paperwork, and see more people, and just-- this took about six or seven days, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, when you are in the classroom-- is this like a classroom, where I would expect there are desks and you are just sitting at the desk?

Pfc. Manning

Well it's a-- they call it a classroom but it's a conference room.

And, everybody is-- they have-- they have the post trial inmates that are being across us at one side of the table.

And, the-- they had the two other pre-trials, me, and pre-trial.And, we sat together, and I was able to talk to him.

I was-- I wasn't sure if I was suppose to. [slight laugh)]If I was suppose to talk to him or not, but, you know, I did.

And, you know-- it was just weird.It was unusual, and being out and about and like not having a list-- not being having like four people move-- be involved in my movement, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Were you ever concerned at some point that what you were doing was wrong, by being able-- by talking and being out of your cell without restraints?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. I thought somebody was going to fix what was wrong in terms of my status, you know.

I thought that it was a-- again, I kept on thinking, 'Oh. Yeah.It's been a miscommunication,' and you know, 'They are going to change my status. Then, after the status report or the status changes, and that's-- that's'

But, that was what I was used to-- was miscommunication that occurring-- and then, them being fixed, so.

I just expected the same at the JRCF, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

How long before you realized that-- well I guess after the indoctrination process, you were placed in [missed word] 'Medium Custody'?

How long for you did it take for you to realize that, that was your new life, now?

Pfc. Manning

It took-- it took a few days for me to realize that, you know, this is my new home, and this is how things are going to be.

But, I didn't really get use to interacting with the other pre-trials for several weeks.

It actually might have-- I would say it was probably about a month to a month and a half before I really felt comfortable talking with people, and being out of my cell without restraints, and everything else.

I just wasn't-- I wasn't use to it, and it was different, and, you know, it was just-- I mean, at first I was almost uncomfortable, because I wasn't sure what to do, or what I was allowed to do.

I felt like-- I felt like if I was outside of the cell, I was doing something wrong.

So, I know I just stand at parade rest for, you know, for whatever-- And, you know-- and the guards looked at me like I was funny.And then I-- so, I started to stop doing that.

Defense (Coombs)

Now, as you started to get adjusted to your new life at the JRCF, did-- did you ever try to harm yourself now that you were in at 'Medium Custody In'?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you ever try to escape?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Did there come a time that you were involved with another detainee in a physical dispute?

Pfc. Manning

Another pretrial inmate, yes.

There was a-- there was an altercation in December of 2011.That was about a week before the Article 32, yes.

Defense (Coombs)

And, what happened?

Pfc. Manning

You know-- I mean I had been there for a while.

We actually moved housing units into this [missed word] housing-- a housing unit where pre-trials were held in a housing unit, separate from everybody else.

But, you know-- So I was in the cell-- I was in my cell.And, then it was like afternoon-- it was a Saturday.

So, I, you know-- I was just-- was mostly just sleeping, cause it's a Saturday and I felt like sleeping that afternoon.Just to take a nap.

And, I got out, and it was time for chow.So, I-- I stood by for chow, to get frisk searched. And, then I remember-- I remember the feeling that-- that this particular inmate was-- was-- sort of, just making fun of me, and attacking me, and just sort of a theory I had-- I am not use-- I am not use to this sort of-- and I had just woken up-- and I was sort of drowsy as well.

So, I mean, he started to-- I felt like he started to-- to attack me verbally. And, you know-- and I tried to ignore it, because this is something-- this is not unusual, but the intensity and the-- the intensity of this.

And, I have never had-- I've never felt like-- I never felt this point this sense of verbal attack-- and then verbal attack, and then me being, you know-- this sense, you know, being made fun of for not responding to it, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

You apparently did respond to it in a way in which you got into trouble?

Pfc. Manning

Yes. Yes, sir.I did.I-- I don't know what was said.He said-- this particular-- I felt that this particular inmate said directly something to me.

And, I-- I responded.I mean, I just moved in and I-- and I went-- and I-- and I tried to punch him.

I mean I guess I tried to go for the face, but I ended up hitting the shoulder of this-- taller, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, then after that were you punished?

Pfc. Manning

Well, I mean I was removed from the housing unit at that point.

I was-- we went out separate ways, and there was an investigation period.

And, then there was a break, because we went-- I transferred here for the Article 32.

Now, there was a sense of the tension from the Article 32 that week as well.The upcoming Article 32.And, then it resumed as soon as I got back in January, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Did you successfully complete your punishment?

Pfc. Manning

I was given, 15 days of disciplinary segregation.And, fourteen days of extra duty.

And, I completed my-- the last day of extra duty the exact date, that I was transferred for the arraignment.

So, yes, I completed-- I completed everything involved with that.

Defense (Coombs)

And, since that incident, have you ever had any difficulty or problems at the JRCF?

Pfc. Manning

No, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, finally.When you left were seeing-- when you left Quantico, you were seeing a forensic psychiatrist on a weekly basis.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

--when you got to the JRCF did you continue to see other forensic psychiatrists?

Pfc. Manning

Not a psychiatrist.There was a psychologist,who worked primarily at the disciplinary barracks, and she was there for my in processing as well.

Well, she came in after I was-- been-- going through the in processing.

And, introduced herself, and I told her I wasn't comfortable with-- I didn't-- I mean, she had been working at the JRCF full time.

She worked at the disciplinary barracks across the street.And so, she-- I mean it was a brand new facility as well, but, you know, I talked to her.

I talked to her on-- on a-- once a-- once a month or so, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

And, at this point-- did there come a time where you no longer were being seen by any mental health professionals?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. I haven't seen-- a clinical-- in a clinical sense a-- I don't know if-- if I seeing-- Doctor Galloway [sp.] in a clinical sense.

She said that she had been tasked by her, quote 'boss' unquote, you know, to talk to me.

And so, I would be pulled out for these appointments.And, I would go speak to her.And, I don't mind speaking to-- I didn't mind speaking to her, sir.

But, I don't know if you could consider that clinical.I-- I didn't see that in-- I didn't see her as being in a clinical role. But, if-- if she was, then that ended early this-- at the beginning of the year, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

In this year?

Pfc. Manning

Yes, sir. Right before the arraignment, sir.

Defense (Coombs)

Okay. Thank you Pfc. Manning.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Sir.

Prosecution (Fein)

Your Honor.The United States recommends that we recess for the night.The defense and the United States recently coordinated on scheduling, and then possibly have an [RCM] 802 without scheduling to reconvene tomorrow morning at 09:30.

Judge Lind

Alright, any objection?

Defense (Coombs)

No objection, your Honor.

Judge Lind

Alright. That seems like a good point to do that.Let's get a start time for tomorrow.I assume you don't want to reconvene is that correct?

Prosecution (Fein)

Not tonight.

Judge Lind

Pfc. Manning, if you would go ahead and go back to your seat.

Pfc. Manning

Yes, Ma'am.

[Manning gets up and moves back to the defense table.]

Judge Lind

09:30 like we did today?

Prosecution (Fein)

Yes, Ma'am.

Defense (Coombs)

Yes, Ma'am.

Judge Lind

Alright. So, we will recess the Court for the evening then and be ready to start at 09:30 tomorrow morning.Court is in recess.

ALL RISE

[END OF DAY.]

Alexa O'Brien Alexa O'Brien researches and writes about national security. Her work has been published in VICE News, The Cairo Review of Global Affairs, Guardian UK, Salon, The Daily Beast, and featured on the BBC, PBS Frontline, On The Media, Democracy Now!, and Public Radio International. In 2013, she was shortlisted for the Martha Gellhorn Prize for Journalism in the UK and listed in The Verge 50..